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Lake Herman Road was just a sleepy
little road, two-lane road.
4
00:00:32,566 --> 00:00:38,372
It was a shortcut from Vallejo
to the Benicia area, the Benicia township.
5
00:00:38,772 --> 00:00:41,909
It was not very well-traveled.
6
00:00:42,075 --> 00:00:46,146
It was not lit at all.
Of course, there were no street lights.
7
00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,919
The turnout area
where the crimes were committed...
8
00:00:52,085 --> 00:00:54,288
...was kind of a little lovers' lane.
9
00:00:54,454 --> 00:00:57,291
People would stop there, you know,
and kids knew that.
10
00:00:57,457 --> 00:00:59,993
The Benicia High School kids knew that.
11
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,462
You know, Hogan High,
the Vallejo High School kids...
12
00:01:02,629 --> 00:01:05,332
...all knew that that transaction
was there.
13
00:01:05,499 --> 00:01:07,100
I mean, back and forth in that road.
14
00:01:07,267 --> 00:01:10,170
But you did not have
a whole lot of traffic.
15
00:01:11,271 --> 00:01:16,076
If there was any traffic in the evening,
it was teenagers or somebody just coming--
16
00:01:16,243 --> 00:01:19,780
Getting off work late
and coming back over to Benicia.
17
00:01:28,121 --> 00:01:31,792
The population
was probably around 5000.
18
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,529
It was a sleepy little community,
middle class.
19
00:01:35,696 --> 00:01:41,668
Crime rate was very, very low
per population...
20
00:01:41,835 --> 00:01:43,604
...almost nil.
21
00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:45,606
Major crime at that time within the city...
22
00:01:48,375 --> 00:01:50,377
...would be a bar fight, a stolen car...
23
00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:53,880
...minor thefts,
some family disturbances.
24
00:01:54,047 --> 00:01:59,886
There were not any murders prior to that
for at least five or six years.
25
00:02:00,053 --> 00:02:02,322
I was the first officer...
26
00:02:03,557 --> 00:02:05,726
I was on patrol that night
and my partner was sick.
27
00:02:08,495 --> 00:02:09,730
He couldn't make it.
28
00:02:09,896 --> 00:02:12,899
And Wayne Waterman
was a new kid on the job.
29
00:02:13,066 --> 00:02:16,837
He was working the jail.
We all worked the jail first.
30
00:02:17,004 --> 00:02:21,041
And he asked if he could ride with me.
31
00:02:21,508 --> 00:02:24,711
And I said,
"Sure, I'd be glad to have him."
32
00:02:24,878 --> 00:02:27,648
And we got a call from the sergeant...
33
00:02:27,814 --> 00:02:33,754
...that a man from Benicia,
who fishes at Lake Berryessa...
34
00:02:34,588 --> 00:02:39,059
...wasn't home.
And that was around 7:00, 8:00.
35
00:02:39,226 --> 00:02:42,262
He asked us to look down
Lake Herman Road...
36
00:02:42,429 --> 00:02:44,297
...and see if his truck was there.
37
00:02:44,464 --> 00:02:46,166
It was a blue truck.
38
00:02:46,333 --> 00:02:49,102
And just as we turned on
Lake Herman Road...
39
00:02:49,269 --> 00:02:54,241
...we had a call to go to
the Hells Angels' pad on Warren Street.
40
00:02:54,408 --> 00:02:58,378
We were there about 30, 40 minutes.
41
00:02:58,545 --> 00:03:01,148
When we got back in the car...
42
00:03:01,314 --> 00:03:05,552
...we were told we had a double 187
on Lake Herman Road.
43
00:03:05,719 --> 00:03:10,190
During that night,
we had served a search warrant at the--
44
00:03:10,357 --> 00:03:12,292
What we called "the cottage"
at Lake Herman...
45
00:03:12,459 --> 00:03:15,328
...which was owned by
the city of Benicia.
46
00:03:15,495 --> 00:03:17,931
A narcotics search warrant,
my partner and I.
47
00:03:18,098 --> 00:03:22,369
And we have-- We confiscated
about a pound and a half of marijuana...
48
00:03:22,536 --> 00:03:25,739
...which, you know, in the 1960s,
that was a big drug bust.
49
00:03:25,906 --> 00:03:29,576
Today it wouldn't get very high
on the Richter scale.
50
00:03:30,343 --> 00:03:34,081
We had left, were heading back
to the police department...
51
00:03:34,247 --> 00:03:37,217
...to put the marijuana into evidence.
52
00:03:37,384 --> 00:03:41,088
And as we drove by, we did not observe
or see anybody in that area...
53
00:03:41,254 --> 00:03:43,090
...because it's a turn there...
54
00:03:43,256 --> 00:03:46,760
...and your headlights shine right in there
as you go by.
55
00:03:53,366 --> 00:03:56,269
As we're pulling into the lot
in the police department...
56
00:03:56,436 --> 00:04:00,073
...we heard the Benicia Police Department
dispatcher put out a call...
57
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,244
...of possible shooting and victims
on Lake Herman Road...
58
00:04:04,411 --> 00:04:06,713
...and described the location.
59
00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:12,352
My partner and I turned around at that time
and responded to the call.
60
00:04:12,753 --> 00:04:16,690
When we got there, there was already
a marked police unit from Benicia...
61
00:04:17,524 --> 00:04:21,995
...and one of our police sergeants
was on scene at that time.
62
00:04:22,162 --> 00:04:25,565
The car was heading east...
63
00:04:26,733 --> 00:04:29,703
...near a place where they had
a pumping station...
64
00:04:29,870 --> 00:04:32,839
...or something down below.
65
00:04:33,507 --> 00:04:37,911
Because I remember we used to
see the fella check it out every night.
66
00:04:41,581 --> 00:04:42,816
It was a Rambler.
67
00:04:44,217 --> 00:04:45,585
A two-tone Rambler.
68
00:04:45,752 --> 00:04:48,321
We first saw the first victim...
69
00:04:48,488 --> 00:04:54,861
...the male, who was lying outside of
the passenger door of the vehicle.
70
00:04:55,028 --> 00:04:58,865
It appeared that he had a gunshot wound
above the left ear.
71
00:04:59,466 --> 00:05:01,535
He appeared--
Or was, actually, breathing.
72
00:05:01,701 --> 00:05:06,473
It was a fairly cold night, it was late,
on a December night...
73
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,310
...and you could actually see his breath.
74
00:05:10,911 --> 00:05:12,445
I think that that was just because...
75
00:05:12,612 --> 00:05:15,816
...his respiratory system
was still intact to some extent...
76
00:05:15,982 --> 00:05:19,352
...and his brain hadn't actually
shut down yet, which-- Shut him down.
77
00:05:19,519 --> 00:05:22,022
We never had too many murders.
78
00:05:22,189 --> 00:05:27,794
We solved them all,
but that was just a few, but this one...
79
00:05:29,029 --> 00:05:31,898
And there was a gal who lived in the--
80
00:05:32,065 --> 00:05:36,636
A woman, who lived in a house
about a mile up...
81
00:05:36,803 --> 00:05:39,172
...going towards Vallejo.
82
00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:44,911
And she saw the Benicia Police Department
and she told them about it...
83
00:05:45,078 --> 00:05:47,948
...and they were there first on the scene.
84
00:05:48,114 --> 00:05:51,585
Of course, the sheriff's office was called
because it is their jurisdiction...
85
00:05:51,751 --> 00:05:54,020
...and Solona County Sheriff's Office
responded...
86
00:05:54,187 --> 00:05:56,690
...and actually handled the investigation.
87
00:05:56,857 --> 00:05:59,092
We stood around
to assist their deputies...
88
00:05:59,259 --> 00:06:02,062
...and keep the press
and other people away...
89
00:06:02,229 --> 00:06:04,030
...as they worked the crime scene.
90
00:06:04,731 --> 00:06:06,499
We contacted the office...
91
00:06:06,666 --> 00:06:09,636
...told them to have
Sergeant Les Lundblad come.
92
00:06:09,803 --> 00:06:13,907
He was in charge.
I was a patrolman at that time.
93
00:06:14,074 --> 00:06:16,676
The boy was an Eagle Scout,
the girl was on her first date...
94
00:06:19,446 --> 00:06:23,650
...and there's no record of any misbehavior
on either one of them.
95
00:06:23,817 --> 00:06:25,018
Why did this happen?
96
00:06:25,185 --> 00:06:27,721
It was a senseless murder, I believe.
97
00:06:28,622 --> 00:06:31,825
He told me, he says,
"Follow the ambulance down...
98
00:06:31,992 --> 00:06:36,663
...and see if you can get any information,"
you know?
99
00:06:36,830 --> 00:06:39,266
That's where I found out about the ring.
100
00:06:39,432 --> 00:06:41,635
I noticed he had it like this.
101
00:06:41,801 --> 00:06:44,104
Holding it-- Holding it like that:
102
00:06:44,271 --> 00:06:48,308
Holding it like somebody
was trying to take it from him.
103
00:06:49,209 --> 00:06:55,715
And the nurse, she said he died
before he came in the hospital.
104
00:06:56,850 --> 00:07:00,287
Looked to the rear of the vehicle
and saw the female victim.
105
00:07:00,453 --> 00:07:04,124
Approximately 29 to 30 feet...
106
00:07:04,524 --> 00:07:08,728
...facedown and had been shot
multiple times.
107
00:07:08,895 --> 00:07:13,099
She was shot full of holes,
I forget how many.
108
00:07:13,266 --> 00:07:19,205
We got several shells from her,
where she was shot in the back.
109
00:07:20,273 --> 00:07:21,942
The female victim had bled out...
110
00:07:22,108 --> 00:07:26,379
...and it was obvious without even
taking a pulse, which I did do...
111
00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:28,748
...she was expired at the scene.
112
00:07:28,915 --> 00:07:31,418
I mean, she just completely--
There was a lot of blood...
113
00:07:31,584 --> 00:07:33,820
...and she completely just bled out,
it appeared.
114
00:07:34,421 --> 00:07:40,527
Where the female victim was laying,
there was expended casings from a .22.
115
00:07:40,694 --> 00:07:46,199
And there was also casings, I believe,
on the right side of the vehicle.
116
00:07:46,366 --> 00:07:50,236
There was one round that was fired
through the right rear window...
117
00:07:50,403 --> 00:07:52,772
...and we tried to figure out...
118
00:07:52,939 --> 00:07:57,377
...was that a warning shot
to get the victims out of the car?
119
00:07:58,211 --> 00:08:01,481
But I don't think that that
was ever decided.
120
00:08:01,648 --> 00:08:03,483
Although that round did not--
121
00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:07,587
To the best of my recollection
did not hit the male victim...
122
00:08:07,754 --> 00:08:09,923
...that it went into the headliner
of the vehicle.
123
00:08:10,090 --> 00:08:15,095
Possibly they were ordered out of the car
by the responsible.
124
00:08:15,462 --> 00:08:18,298
And the boy was shot
right at the side of the car...
125
00:08:18,465 --> 00:08:21,534
...and the girl apparently tried to run...
126
00:08:21,701 --> 00:08:25,171
...and she was shot
and found 28 feet further on.
127
00:08:25,338 --> 00:08:28,541
There was one bullet hole that penetrated
one of the windows of the car.
128
00:08:28,708 --> 00:08:30,043
Was this a stray bullet...
129
00:08:30,210 --> 00:08:33,446
...or was this one of the bullets
that hit the victim and went on through?
130
00:08:33,613 --> 00:08:40,120
This could be a stray bullet
or a warning bullet of some sort.
131
00:08:40,754 --> 00:08:44,958
We can't connect it with the bodies,
but it's the same type of shell.
132
00:09:09,015 --> 00:09:12,685
So I came back to the scene.
Les was there.
133
00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:15,588
We went over everything...
134
00:09:16,456 --> 00:09:18,291
...and that was it for that day.
135
00:09:18,458 --> 00:09:21,761
We worked until about
4:00 in the morning...
136
00:09:21,928 --> 00:09:26,833
...checking every place and that,
and all the bullets we could find and that.
137
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,803
Then the next morning I got a call
and told them--
138
00:09:29,969 --> 00:09:33,873
They told me I was gonna be
an investigator on it.
139
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,377
It wasn't handled
as you would handle it today.
140
00:09:37,544 --> 00:09:41,214
I don't think there was the experience there
to actually handle it that way.
141
00:09:41,381 --> 00:09:45,251
And you gotta realize the first concern
was the male victim:
142
00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:49,322
"Is he still alive? Let's get him--
Let's save a life here."
143
00:09:50,023 --> 00:09:54,027
Then, of course, they marked the bodies
and I'm sure they parked the patrol cars...
144
00:09:54,194 --> 00:09:57,197
...and they walked around and looked
and picked up the empty casings...
145
00:09:57,363 --> 00:09:59,632
...and so on and so forth.
146
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:01,801
But under today's circumstances...
147
00:10:01,968 --> 00:10:04,804
...because of the technology we have today
that we didn't have then...
148
00:10:04,971 --> 00:10:07,841
...they would have
worked that crime scene for 24 hours.
149
00:10:08,007 --> 00:10:11,845
I mean, they would have taken
earth samples...
150
00:10:12,312 --> 00:10:13,847
...they would have looked for fiber...
151
00:10:14,013 --> 00:10:17,417
...you would have looked for folic hairs,
any hair.
152
00:10:17,584 --> 00:10:19,853
I mean, it would have been a lot more
in-depth...
153
00:10:20,019 --> 00:10:22,755
...just because they have the technology
that-- Today that we--
154
00:10:22,922 --> 00:10:25,191
They did not have in those days.
155
00:10:31,798 --> 00:10:35,935
You know, in that half-hour,
we accounted for--
156
00:10:36,102 --> 00:10:39,172
There were people around that area...
157
00:10:39,439 --> 00:10:42,275
...except for six minutes.
158
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:47,413
And during that six minutes,
that's when it all happened.
159
00:10:47,580 --> 00:10:51,217
We felt that we were probably only
minutes from the actual crime scene...
160
00:10:51,384 --> 00:10:53,419
...when it happened.
161
00:10:53,586 --> 00:10:55,321
And again,
to the best of my recollection...
162
00:10:55,488 --> 00:10:58,291
...we did not pass any other vehicles
or traffic.
163
00:10:58,458 --> 00:11:00,160
And I'm pretty sure of that...
164
00:11:00,326 --> 00:11:03,830
...because that was one of the things
that we told the sheriff's office.
165
00:11:03,997 --> 00:11:07,233
We did not see any other vehicles
coming our way.
166
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:12,605
Now, we take a bit of a shortcut,
so what could have happened is...
167
00:11:12,772 --> 00:11:15,441
...that depending where a vehicle
turned on to Lake Herman Road...
168
00:11:15,608 --> 00:11:18,578
...if it came from behind us, from Vallejo,
we would not have seen them.
169
00:11:18,745 --> 00:11:23,349
Our feeling at that time
is that the person came-- Or persons.
170
00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:28,388
Came from the Vallejo area
and did not come from the Benicia area.
171
00:11:29,622 --> 00:11:34,360
Once the Blue Rock Springs,
the Vallejo case, had occurred...
172
00:11:34,527 --> 00:11:38,031
...I think that it really set in
to the residents of Benicia, at least--
173
00:11:38,198 --> 00:11:40,066
And Vallejo also.
174
00:11:40,233 --> 00:11:42,168
--that we've got some kind of a crazed--
175
00:11:42,335 --> 00:11:44,737
And that's the term
they were using at that time.
176
00:11:44,904 --> 00:11:47,373
Crazed killer out there.
177
00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:51,010
People couldn't figure out
what is he or she doing.
178
00:11:51,177 --> 00:11:54,614
What is this all about?
What's the motive?
179
00:11:55,248 --> 00:11:58,952
And, you know, most homicides
in my experience...
180
00:11:59,118 --> 00:12:02,956
...you know, if you can find the motive,
you're gonna find the responsible.
181
00:12:03,122 --> 00:12:06,693
And I think-- You know, I've been
out of law enforcement for a few years...
182
00:12:06,859 --> 00:12:10,763
...but I think that the FBI statistics
are still somewhere in the high 80s...
183
00:12:10,930 --> 00:12:13,800
...that most victims know their assailant.
184
00:12:13,967 --> 00:12:19,105
But when you have a random killing
or killings without a motive...
185
00:12:19,272 --> 00:12:21,374
...without any method of operation--
186
00:12:21,541 --> 00:12:24,811
And the method of operation were different
between the two, theoretically.
187
00:12:24,978 --> 00:12:26,946
Except it was a couple.
188
00:12:27,614 --> 00:12:32,318
It really starts to set in and really panic
and then you start thinking of, you know--
189
00:12:32,485 --> 00:12:36,489
And, again, what they were talking about
is a crazed killer, a madman...
190
00:12:36,656 --> 00:12:40,593
...or mad person, that was out there,
just taking human life.
191
00:12:42,028 --> 00:12:44,430
Why wasn't the Zodiac caught?
192
00:12:44,864 --> 00:12:47,300
Beats the heck out of me.
193
00:12:48,067 --> 00:12:51,704
I don't know.
We could never nail down anybody on it.
194
00:12:51,871 --> 00:12:56,709
I'm not sure that if we had, you know,
like I said, the science we have today...
195
00:12:56,876 --> 00:12:58,745
...that he'd be able to beat that.
196
00:12:58,911 --> 00:13:01,581
I really think if it-- If we had--
197
00:13:01,748 --> 00:13:05,852
And, again, it's like putting the cart
before the horse...
198
00:13:06,019 --> 00:13:08,755
...but if we could take what we have today
and go back then...
199
00:13:08,921 --> 00:13:12,325
...I think that he, you know,
would have been arrested, period.
200
00:13:12,492 --> 00:13:14,994
But, again, everything's academic
at this point.
201
00:13:14,994 --> 00:13:15,061
But, again, everything's academic
at this point.
202
00:13:34,147 --> 00:13:39,052
Back at that time, Blue Rock Springs,
that was a more or less rural area.
203
00:13:41,821 --> 00:13:44,057
Vallejo had not expanded its city limits
that far yet...
204
00:13:44,223 --> 00:13:45,625
...so it was a rather rural area.
205
00:13:47,093 --> 00:13:48,261
On the weekends especially...
206
00:13:48,428 --> 00:13:51,497
...there would be large crowds of people
out there, they'd barbeque.
207
00:13:51,664 --> 00:13:54,033
At night, it really got dark.
208
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,036
There were some street lights out there,
but only a couple of them.
209
00:13:57,203 --> 00:13:58,905
It was kind of out in the boondocks.
210
00:13:59,238 --> 00:14:01,407
And kids would use it perennially
as a lovers' lane.
211
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:07,914
You could drive your patrol car by there
and there would be five cars out there.
212
00:14:08,081 --> 00:14:11,317
People listen to the radio and doing
whatever else they do in lovers' lane.
213
00:14:11,484 --> 00:14:12,819
It was July 4th, a holiday...
214
00:14:12,985 --> 00:14:16,055
...and my partner, John Lynch--
He was also a detective sergeant.
215
00:14:18,825 --> 00:14:20,193
He was the senior of our team.
216
00:14:20,827 --> 00:14:25,665
--we worked a late shift,
like, 3 to midnight.
217
00:14:25,832 --> 00:14:28,768
Something like that.
And we were driving around.
218
00:14:28,935 --> 00:14:31,738
I was driving the, you know,
plainclothes car.
219
00:14:31,904 --> 00:14:34,507
We were, you know,
plainclothes detectives.
220
00:14:34,674 --> 00:14:39,278
And we were down-- I think down
around the downtown area in Vallejo.
221
00:14:39,445 --> 00:14:42,048
The old part of town.
222
00:14:42,215 --> 00:14:43,449
It was close to midnight...
223
00:14:43,616 --> 00:14:45,752
...and we heard reports
of a possible shooting...
224
00:14:45,918 --> 00:14:48,154
...at Blue Rock Springs Park
come over the radio.
225
00:14:48,321 --> 00:14:52,425
They dispatched a patrol car.
226
00:14:53,126 --> 00:14:57,330
And so I said-- You know,
I'm the younger by far of the two of us.
227
00:14:57,497 --> 00:14:59,999
So I told John, "Why don't we--?
You wanna head out there?"
228
00:15:00,166 --> 00:15:03,603
And he said, "No, it's probably just
firecrackers or something."
229
00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:05,938
At 12:10, the first call...
230
00:15:08,708 --> 00:15:12,879
...I received was from
a young white woman...
231
00:15:13,045 --> 00:15:16,549
...I would say, in her late teens.
232
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:20,219
Seventeen. Sixteen, 17, 18.
233
00:15:20,386 --> 00:15:22,555
Somewhere around there.
234
00:15:22,722 --> 00:15:28,795
And she was really agitated,
excited or whatever.
235
00:15:28,961 --> 00:15:35,468
And she reported that there were kids
being shot at at Blue Rock Springs.
236
00:15:35,635 --> 00:15:40,606
So since I was driving, I kind of started
meandering in that direction.
237
00:15:40,773 --> 00:15:47,146
And a few minutes later, we got I think--
I believe another report of shots fired...
238
00:15:47,313 --> 00:15:51,050
...and, again, at Blue Rock Springs.
239
00:15:51,684 --> 00:15:53,886
And the officer--
240
00:15:54,053 --> 00:15:56,556
I think it was Dick Hoffman,
a patrol officer.
241
00:15:56,722 --> 00:16:01,160
--got there first
and said he had a shooting.
242
00:16:01,327 --> 00:16:02,962
Two people involved.
243
00:16:03,129 --> 00:16:06,566
So then obviously I put it in high gear
and took off...
244
00:16:06,732 --> 00:16:08,901
...and we got out there pretty quickly.
245
00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:16,909
I was working as a patrol officer
in the Juvenile Division.
246
00:16:17,076 --> 00:16:19,745
That was a plainclothesed assignment.
247
00:16:20,146 --> 00:16:26,285
Now, I had just been at Blue Rock Springs
a half-hour or so before that...
248
00:16:26,452 --> 00:16:29,522
...and checked the area
and found it closed.
249
00:16:29,922 --> 00:16:35,027
My purpose out there was to make sure
there were no teenagers hanging out...
250
00:16:35,194 --> 00:16:37,697
...drinking, fighting, whatever.
251
00:16:37,864 --> 00:16:39,932
The park was closed.
252
00:16:40,199 --> 00:16:41,701
And there was no activity out there...
253
00:16:41,868 --> 00:16:45,371
...when I passed through a half-hour or so
ahead of that time.
254
00:16:46,839 --> 00:16:52,545
So I took the call
and I gave it to the dispatcher.
255
00:16:52,712 --> 00:16:55,915
And I remember her saying:
256
00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:59,619
"I don't know who I'm going to send.
I don't have anybody free."
257
00:17:00,453 --> 00:17:04,323
And I wasn't far away, so I turned around
and went back out there.
258
00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:09,095
Told Dispatch that I was gonna go out there
to check on that report.
259
00:17:09,262 --> 00:17:12,231
Hoffman was at the scene.
We pulled in the parking lot...
260
00:17:12,398 --> 00:17:16,669
...and I saw this little--
I think it was a 1963 light-brown Corvair.
261
00:17:16,836 --> 00:17:19,505
It had its headlights on,
the passenger door was open...
262
00:17:19,672 --> 00:17:22,875
...and there was a male person
laying on the ground.
263
00:17:23,042 --> 00:17:26,045
And Hoffman was ministering to him.
264
00:17:26,212 --> 00:17:28,180
And I got up close.
265
00:17:28,714 --> 00:17:30,883
And with my flashlight,
I looked down there...
266
00:17:31,050 --> 00:17:35,555
...and there was a young guy down there
laying on his back.
267
00:17:36,122 --> 00:17:37,723
Obviously had been shot.
268
00:17:37,890 --> 00:17:42,128
He was reaching up towards me
or the flashlight I was holding...
269
00:17:42,295 --> 00:17:45,565
...kind of gurgling. Obviously in pain.
270
00:17:47,967 --> 00:17:51,904
From him, I looked over
in the front seat of the car...
271
00:17:52,505 --> 00:17:55,608
...and saw a young girl...
272
00:17:55,775 --> 00:17:59,245
...sitting behind the steering wheel
of the car.
273
00:17:59,478 --> 00:18:01,547
She had been shot too.
274
00:18:03,182 --> 00:18:06,085
Blood all over the front in the car.
275
00:18:06,252 --> 00:18:08,287
And I asked Hoffman,
"What you got here?"
276
00:18:08,454 --> 00:18:09,689
And he says, "I've got two.
277
00:18:09,855 --> 00:18:12,024
The driver in there, the girl,
she's been shot.
278
00:18:12,191 --> 00:18:15,494
And this guy--"
Later identified as Michael Mageau.
279
00:18:15,661 --> 00:18:19,265
"--was laying on the ground
and he had just been shot to pieces."
280
00:18:19,432 --> 00:18:21,701
He had a bullet, I think,
went through his neck...
281
00:18:21,867 --> 00:18:23,469
...and came out of his cheek.
282
00:18:23,970 --> 00:18:27,106
I got up and walked around
to the driver's door...
283
00:18:27,273 --> 00:18:29,308
...and the window was down.
284
00:18:29,942 --> 00:18:33,646
And the girl,
later identified as Darlene Ferrin...
285
00:18:33,813 --> 00:18:36,749
...she had her eyes, you know,
slitted open a little bit...
286
00:18:36,916 --> 00:18:38,584
...and I could see she was breathing.
287
00:18:38,751 --> 00:18:41,721
And I asked her
if she could tell me what happened.
288
00:18:41,887 --> 00:18:43,990
And she kind of tried
mumbling something.
289
00:18:44,156 --> 00:18:49,261
I got up real close and I never could
distinguish any actual words.
290
00:18:49,428 --> 00:18:51,597
I checked her pulse,
the carotid artery pulse.
291
00:18:51,764 --> 00:18:53,599
I found nothing.
292
00:18:55,801 --> 00:18:56,836
Ambulance came.
293
00:18:57,003 --> 00:19:01,641
They loaded Mageau up first
and then got Darlene out of the car.
294
00:19:01,807 --> 00:19:06,445
And one of the things I did
when they lifted Mageau up, I--
295
00:19:06,612 --> 00:19:08,180
You know, we had marked--
296
00:19:08,347 --> 00:19:13,019
I think Hoffman had outlined his body
with a crayon.
297
00:19:13,185 --> 00:19:16,255
And so I was shining a light down there
for whatever reason.
298
00:19:16,422 --> 00:19:21,060
I saw there was a bullet slug underneath
where Mageau had been laying.
299
00:19:21,227 --> 00:19:27,299
And I picked it up and it looked like
a 9 mm Parabellum bullet, they call it.
300
00:19:27,466 --> 00:19:29,702
I thought it kind of strange...
301
00:19:30,269 --> 00:19:32,672
...when they undressed that man.
302
00:19:34,006 --> 00:19:36,242
He was wearing a lot of clothes.
303
00:19:36,409 --> 00:19:38,711
He had several pairs of pants on...
304
00:19:38,878 --> 00:19:41,147
...and some sweaters
and a long-sleeved shirt.
305
00:19:41,313 --> 00:19:43,449
And that weather was hot that night
out there.
306
00:19:43,616 --> 00:19:47,186
And he was-- I don't know why
he was dressed so hot.
307
00:19:47,353 --> 00:19:48,854
I was real skinny. I was so skinny.
308
00:19:51,624 --> 00:19:54,593
Back in 1969, I was so skinny
that I had to wear three pairs of pants.
309
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,195
So I was so thin, you know...
310
00:19:56,362 --> 00:19:58,864
...that I wore three pairs of pants
to cover up my thinness.
311
00:19:59,031 --> 00:20:01,267
And she knew about it.
She used to joke about it.
312
00:20:01,434 --> 00:20:04,136
"Why are you wearing so many pants?"
I told her, "I'm thin."
313
00:20:08,274 --> 00:20:11,277
I found Darlene's purse in the back seat
and got her identification out.
314
00:20:11,444 --> 00:20:13,145
And her blood all over the seat.
315
00:20:13,312 --> 00:20:14,647
And then I walked around...
316
00:20:14,814 --> 00:20:17,583
...and Mageau's wallet was up on
the right rear fender of the car.
317
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:22,021
And I later learned that Hoffman
had gotten it out and had laid it up there.
318
00:20:23,022 --> 00:20:26,459
So I took that and the purse
and those things were all put into evidence.
319
00:20:26,625 --> 00:20:28,294
And when the ambulance left...
320
00:20:28,461 --> 00:20:32,665
...we told Hoffman to ride in the ambulance
and keep trying to get a statement.
321
00:20:32,832 --> 00:20:34,600
Both of them
were put in the ambulance...
322
00:20:34,767 --> 00:20:39,605
...and I rode the ambulance with them
to Kaiser hospital in Vallejo.
323
00:20:39,772 --> 00:20:41,941
Did you try talking to her?
324
00:20:42,742 --> 00:20:44,910
There was no talking to her.
325
00:20:46,078 --> 00:20:49,715
I was there to record anything
that would have been said...
326
00:20:50,583 --> 00:20:53,652
...but I couldn't speak with her.
327
00:20:54,353 --> 00:20:55,855
She was--
328
00:20:56,455 --> 00:21:01,794
There was an ambulance attendant
giving her CPR...
329
00:21:01,961 --> 00:21:04,563
...during the ride to the hospital.
330
00:21:05,898 --> 00:21:10,169
And, of course, her shirt or sweater
or whatever she was wearing was off.
331
00:21:10,336 --> 00:21:16,842
And each time that ambulance attendant
blew air into her chest...
332
00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:23,115
...there was a little piece of material
from her bra that I could see...
333
00:21:23,282 --> 00:21:28,888
...fluttered with every breath
he blew into that girl.
334
00:21:29,054 --> 00:21:32,057
This piece of material
would flutter on the side.
335
00:21:32,224 --> 00:21:34,827
I could see that.
There was no talking to that girl.
336
00:21:34,994 --> 00:21:38,330
-You knew her before the attack, right?
-I never laid eyes on her.
337
00:21:38,497 --> 00:21:40,366
-Never laid eyes on her before?
-No, no.
338
00:21:40,533 --> 00:21:43,569
I had heard that she was a waitress...
339
00:21:44,804 --> 00:21:49,074
...at an all-night restaurant in Vallejo.
340
00:21:50,476 --> 00:21:52,711
But I didn't know the girl at all.
341
00:21:52,878 --> 00:21:55,881
Graysmith wrote a book
about the Zodiac...
342
00:21:56,048 --> 00:21:57,716
...and he mentioned in his book...
343
00:21:57,883 --> 00:22:01,287
...that I was at her, Darlene,
and her husband's house...
344
00:22:01,453 --> 00:22:06,959
...on a house-painting party
prior to her death.
345
00:22:07,426 --> 00:22:10,095
And I don't know anything about that.
That wasn't me.
346
00:22:10,262 --> 00:22:12,598
But that's what he says in his book.
347
00:22:12,765 --> 00:22:17,870
Darlene was my girlfriend at the time
and I was dating her.
348
00:22:18,037 --> 00:22:21,140
And she was planning to get married.
She was already married.
349
00:22:21,307 --> 00:22:24,043
Everybody knew her husband
worked at a restaurant as a cook.
350
00:22:24,210 --> 00:22:25,544
His name was Steve.
351
00:22:25,711 --> 00:22:28,180
Steve was a real nice guy,
a good friend of mine...
352
00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:30,249
...but he knew that we were dating.
353
00:22:30,416 --> 00:22:32,618
She also dated my twin brother, Steve.
354
00:22:32,785 --> 00:22:35,988
My identical twin brother, Steve,
she was dating him.
355
00:22:36,155 --> 00:22:39,258
And we had a big fight.
Me and Steve had a big fight about that.
356
00:22:39,425 --> 00:22:41,827
Because I pretended
I was Warren Beatty, the actor.
357
00:22:41,994 --> 00:22:44,430
I said, "I'm Warren Beatty, the actor,
and this is my brother.
358
00:22:44,597 --> 00:22:45,631
He just shot somebody."
359
00:22:45,798 --> 00:22:48,167
And she said, "Oh, that's cool.
I'll take care of you guys."
360
00:22:48,334 --> 00:22:49,869
She didn't say that, yeah.
361
00:22:50,035 --> 00:22:51,670
But I told Steve, "How about that?"
362
00:22:51,837 --> 00:22:54,440
So she--
To make a long story short, she--
363
00:22:54,607 --> 00:22:56,408
It started out as a joking thing...
364
00:22:56,575 --> 00:22:59,511
...but it's too bad she ended up
losing her life behind it.
365
00:22:59,678 --> 00:23:01,747
You know, seriously,
it's too bad she got murdered...
366
00:23:01,914 --> 00:23:04,016
...as a result of our meeting.
367
00:23:04,183 --> 00:23:07,019
I went to my house
and she picked me up from my house.
368
00:23:07,186 --> 00:23:09,622
Because we were gonna
go out that night.
369
00:23:09,788 --> 00:23:12,224
See, we couldn't see each other
the next day...
370
00:23:12,391 --> 00:23:14,260
...so we decided to see each other
that night...
371
00:23:14,426 --> 00:23:17,196
...after midnight, after midnight...
372
00:23:17,363 --> 00:23:19,531
...to have a lovers' lane-type thing.
373
00:23:19,698 --> 00:23:23,502
To kiss and talk
and hold each other's hands.
374
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:25,170
Is that what Blue Rock Springs--?
375
00:23:25,337 --> 00:23:28,374
Yeah, it was the lovers' lane park
for young people.
376
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:33,445
I was 19 at the time.
Now I'm 57, but I was 19 at the time.
377
00:23:33,846 --> 00:23:35,514
She was 22.
378
00:23:35,681 --> 00:23:40,152
We were chased by this guy,
chased by him from a restaurant.
379
00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:43,255
He was chasing us
and I told her to pull off at the park.
380
00:23:43,422 --> 00:23:45,958
He chased me all night long,
the restaurant.
381
00:23:46,125 --> 00:23:50,496
He chased her to a coffee shop
named Paul's or whatever it was called.
382
00:23:50,663 --> 00:23:52,865
Then he chased us all the way
to the park and then we--
383
00:23:53,032 --> 00:23:55,067
That's where we ended up
at Blue Rock Springs Park.
384
00:23:55,234 --> 00:23:59,638
I thought he drove off, drove away,
but he came back later on and shot us.
385
00:23:59,805 --> 00:24:03,242
Michael Mageau
was the only one of the two...
386
00:24:03,409 --> 00:24:06,512
...that was able to talk to us at all.
387
00:24:07,379 --> 00:24:11,417
And he gave just a very brief description.
He thought--
388
00:24:11,583 --> 00:24:14,653
I believe he told Hoffman
he thought it was a car like Darlene--
389
00:24:14,820 --> 00:24:17,823
It was Darlene Ferrin's car, the Corvair.
390
00:24:17,990 --> 00:24:20,059
And he said he thought...
391
00:24:21,593 --> 00:24:24,496
...a car pulled up
a few feet away from them...
392
00:24:24,663 --> 00:24:27,733
...just, you know, a couple minutes
before the shooting.
393
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,369
He's not-- Wasn't sure
if it was the same car.
394
00:24:30,536 --> 00:24:35,507
It was like a brown Renault car.
Small compact car.
395
00:24:35,808 --> 00:24:38,377
Small compact car.
But it could have been a Cadillac too.
396
00:24:38,544 --> 00:24:41,547
I'm not really sure.
I can't really remember.
397
00:24:41,714 --> 00:24:44,283
He says this car pulled up...
398
00:24:44,750 --> 00:24:47,920
...and he asked Darlene,
"Do you know who that is?"
399
00:24:48,087 --> 00:24:50,489
And she said something like,
"Never mind."
400
00:24:50,656 --> 00:24:53,559
She told me it was a friend of hers
and not to worry about it.
401
00:24:53,726 --> 00:24:55,461
That he was just jealous.
402
00:24:55,627 --> 00:24:57,763
That's all she said about him,
"He's just jealous."
403
00:24:57,930 --> 00:25:00,766
She never mentioned his name,
but she said something about a Richard.
404
00:25:00,933 --> 00:25:04,236
All I heard was his name was Richard.
I kept hearing the name Richard.
405
00:25:04,403 --> 00:25:05,738
And I think that was his name...
406
00:25:05,904 --> 00:25:09,875
...because she referred to him as Richard,
the Zodiac Killer guy.
407
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:12,478
She said he really had a mean temper...
408
00:25:12,644 --> 00:25:14,913
...and that if he ever found out,
he would kill her.
409
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,883
He would kill her. She mentioned that.
She said those words:
410
00:25:18,050 --> 00:25:21,353
"He would kill me if he ever knew
I was talking to you about that."
411
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:22,888
She told me that.
412
00:25:23,389 --> 00:25:26,859
And the car left and then
just very shortly after that...
413
00:25:27,026 --> 00:25:32,598
...this car pulled up behind their car
with the headlights on...
414
00:25:32,765 --> 00:25:34,933
...and he thinks it might have been
the same car...
415
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:37,369
...but he didn't see the car
to be able to tell.
416
00:25:37,536 --> 00:25:41,407
I told her we were on the run.
We were literally on the run. Literally.
417
00:25:41,573 --> 00:25:44,376
On the run.
This guy was chasing us bigtime.
418
00:25:44,543 --> 00:25:47,446
I don't think you told the police that night
that you had been chased.
419
00:25:47,613 --> 00:25:49,948
No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I left that out.
420
00:25:50,115 --> 00:25:53,118
I don't know why, but I left that out.
I forgot about it or something.
421
00:25:53,285 --> 00:25:56,021
-But you're sure now that you--?
-But I'm sure that happened, yeah.
422
00:25:56,188 --> 00:25:59,792
I'm not sure if he told Hoffman
before we got there...
423
00:25:59,958 --> 00:26:03,195
...that when he was shot...
424
00:26:05,364 --> 00:26:08,767
...that he was able to get out of the car
and fell down on the ground.
425
00:26:08,934 --> 00:26:10,269
And as he lay on the ground...
426
00:26:10,436 --> 00:26:14,840
...he saw the assailant's car
drive away toward--
427
00:26:15,007 --> 00:26:19,111
Back toward the city of Vallejo
at a high rate of speed.
428
00:26:19,278 --> 00:26:20,612
He drove off quietly.
429
00:26:20,779 --> 00:26:23,882
He didn't peel out,
he drove real quietly in his car.
430
00:26:24,049 --> 00:26:25,484
And quietly drove out.
431
00:26:25,651 --> 00:26:27,653
You could barely hear the engine
as he drove off.
432
00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:30,322
I believe he said that it looked like
it might have been...
433
00:26:30,489 --> 00:26:33,258
...that same car that pulled up,
you know, next to them...
434
00:26:33,425 --> 00:26:35,561
...just a few minutes
before the actual shooting...
435
00:26:35,727 --> 00:26:37,763
...but I can't be positive about that.
436
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:40,566
We thought he just left
and he wasn't gonna bother us anymore...
437
00:26:40,732 --> 00:26:42,067
...but he came back.
438
00:26:42,234 --> 00:26:44,336
And got out of his car.
He had a blinding light.
439
00:26:44,503 --> 00:26:47,106
He had a big beamer,
just blinding my eyes.
440
00:26:47,272 --> 00:26:48,941
Like, right in my eyes.
441
00:26:49,108 --> 00:26:51,477
I thought it was the police
with a flashlight.
442
00:26:51,643 --> 00:26:55,647
But it wasn't the police,
it was him, the Zodiac Killer.
443
00:26:55,814 --> 00:26:57,683
You know, I thought it was a policeman.
444
00:26:57,850 --> 00:27:00,185
That's why I didn't--
I rolled down the window.
445
00:27:00,352 --> 00:27:03,956
I rolled down the window so--
Because I was--
446
00:27:04,123 --> 00:27:06,325
So I could have my ID.
447
00:27:06,492 --> 00:27:08,360
And that's when he started shooting me.
448
00:27:08,527 --> 00:27:09,862
I thought he hit me.
449
00:27:10,028 --> 00:27:12,331
I looked down and saw blood
spurting out of my mouth.
450
00:27:12,498 --> 00:27:15,134
And I knew I had been shot.
451
00:27:15,968 --> 00:27:18,403
I just asked the policeman,
"Why'd you hit me?" You know?
452
00:27:18,570 --> 00:27:21,974
And then I realized I had been shot.
It wasn't a policeman.
453
00:27:22,141 --> 00:27:25,144
That's the first time I realized
it wasn't a policeman, it was the killer.
454
00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:27,646
I got shot five times.
455
00:27:27,813 --> 00:27:32,217
Shot in the face. Went through my right--
Into my right ear.
456
00:27:32,384 --> 00:27:36,722
Went through my tongue and my jaw
and came out here and went into her.
457
00:27:36,889 --> 00:27:39,224
Bullet went into her and killed her.
458
00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:45,931
And shoulder, elbow, my side
and twice in my left leg.
459
00:27:46,798 --> 00:27:49,668
It lasted a long time
because he shot me and shot me...
460
00:27:49,835 --> 00:27:51,503
...and shot me and shot me and shot me.
461
00:27:51,670 --> 00:27:53,071
It took forever, man.
462
00:27:53,238 --> 00:27:56,775
It might have been a silencer,
might have had a silencer, but I don't know.
463
00:27:56,942 --> 00:28:02,648
Because I didn't hear a big bang
like a gun, a 9 mm, would make.
464
00:28:02,814 --> 00:28:07,452
But I heard a snapping sound,
like a firecracker. So I think he--
465
00:28:07,619 --> 00:28:10,122
To me, I thought he had a silencer
because I didn't hear a--
466
00:28:10,289 --> 00:28:12,424
I mean, I could hear, you know, but I--
467
00:28:12,591 --> 00:28:15,961
But it wasn't a loud, booming bang.
468
00:28:16,128 --> 00:28:19,998
It was just a like a pop,
a pop and a crack, you know?
469
00:28:20,165 --> 00:28:22,100
Like:
470
00:28:23,569 --> 00:28:27,005
That's what it sounded like,
like a firecracker gun.
471
00:28:27,172 --> 00:28:28,640
Or a BB gun, you know?
472
00:28:28,807 --> 00:28:31,043
When we got there,
the headlights and taillights were on.
473
00:28:31,210 --> 00:28:34,513
And I believe the radio. The ignition
was turned to the accessory position.
474
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,150
And the radio was on and playing low.
475
00:28:38,317 --> 00:28:40,986
I did later learn...
476
00:28:41,687 --> 00:28:46,692
...that Michael thinks that Darlene
flashed the lights on and off...
477
00:28:46,858 --> 00:28:49,995
...the headlights,
trying to attract attention.
478
00:28:50,229 --> 00:28:52,431
He says he's not sure
if he asked her to do that...
479
00:28:52,598 --> 00:28:54,366
...or if she did it on her own.
480
00:28:54,533 --> 00:28:56,201
Because he said one day--
481
00:28:56,368 --> 00:28:59,071
Michael told me later
that when they first--
482
00:28:59,238 --> 00:29:00,906
They pulled into the parking lot...
483
00:29:01,073 --> 00:29:03,976
...she turned the lights off,
but had the radio on.
484
00:29:04,142 --> 00:29:07,546
And apparently if she was
flashing the lights for attention...
485
00:29:07,713 --> 00:29:12,317
...she ended up leaving the headlights on
because they were on when we got there.
486
00:29:12,484 --> 00:29:15,454
But Michael told me
that when they had pulled in...
487
00:29:15,621 --> 00:29:17,689
...she turned the headlights off.
488
00:29:17,856 --> 00:29:21,193
When he came up and shot me,
I did have an idea of what he looked like.
489
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,397
He looked like a tall white guy,
about 6 feet tall.
490
00:29:25,564 --> 00:29:29,201
Jet-black hair, curly hair.
491
00:29:30,736 --> 00:29:32,404
He looked like an average-looking person.
492
00:29:32,571 --> 00:29:35,607
But he wasn't ugly, he wasn't handsome,
just an average, nondescript guy.
493
00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:37,009
A plain guy, you know?
494
00:29:37,175 --> 00:29:39,811
But he had long-- Dark-- Tall, dark--
495
00:29:39,978 --> 00:29:43,515
He may even have worn glasses
like yours or mine, you know?
496
00:29:43,682 --> 00:29:45,017
Reading glasses.
497
00:29:45,183 --> 00:29:48,987
He may have had glasses.
I recall he did have glasses on, as I recall.
498
00:29:49,154 --> 00:29:50,656
He did have glasses.
499
00:29:50,822 --> 00:29:53,091
I remember that.
He definitely had glasses on.
500
00:29:53,258 --> 00:29:56,128
The gunshot threw me
in the back seat of the car.
501
00:29:56,295 --> 00:29:59,965
I was upside down,
my left leg was around my shoulder.
502
00:30:00,132 --> 00:30:02,634
My arm was around--
I was strangling myself with my own arm.
503
00:30:02,801 --> 00:30:06,905
And I opened the back door to get out.
I fell out to the ground.
504
00:30:07,205 --> 00:30:08,974
And she was already dead.
505
00:30:12,044 --> 00:30:14,046
So how long was it
before the police showed up?
506
00:30:14,212 --> 00:30:16,048
About nine hours.
507
00:30:16,214 --> 00:30:19,918
Literally, from the time I was shot,
I was in the blood for, like, four hours.
508
00:30:20,085 --> 00:30:23,622
I was on the ground for four hours.
509
00:30:23,789 --> 00:30:25,023
July 4, 1969.
510
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:28,260
And everybody was having
fun and games and I--
511
00:30:28,427 --> 00:30:32,631
People came by and saw me there
and wouldn't call the cops.
512
00:30:32,798 --> 00:30:34,466
I was there for four hours.
513
00:30:34,633 --> 00:30:36,635
People would walk up and say,
"Are you all right?"
514
00:30:36,802 --> 00:30:38,470
"No, I'm not all right," you know?
515
00:30:38,637 --> 00:30:41,506
They said, "Let's run."
They ran screaming, you know?
516
00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:44,309
So, yeah, it was a horrible night for me.
517
00:30:47,813 --> 00:30:49,381
It was.
518
00:30:50,248 --> 00:30:54,319
Because, man, she died, you know.
It wasn't just me. I knew she was dead.
519
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:59,858
Well, I was gonna marry her.
I was really gonna marry her.
520
00:31:00,025 --> 00:31:03,261
So I took it really hard that she died...
521
00:31:03,595 --> 00:31:05,964
...because I felt I should have saved her,
you know?
522
00:31:06,131 --> 00:31:09,701
Because I was there to protect her
and I couldn't protect her.
523
00:31:12,571 --> 00:31:14,840
I'll always regret the fact
that she got killed.
524
00:31:15,006 --> 00:31:18,477
I'll always feel partly responsible for it,
you know?
525
00:31:21,646 --> 00:31:26,151
Physically, I'm fine.
No, physically, I'm fine. I feel fine.
526
00:31:26,318 --> 00:31:30,155
But mentally, the scars of emotions,
the scars are still there.
527
00:31:30,322 --> 00:31:34,826
I'd feel really good if he was caught.
I'd feel really good.
528
00:31:35,093 --> 00:31:39,364
Put an end to that.
Put that guy on death row or something.
529
00:31:39,531 --> 00:31:41,800
It would just make me feel closure.
530
00:31:41,967 --> 00:31:47,239
I'd feel better because they solved
the murder case against Darlene...
531
00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:50,575
...who was a nice, innocent good person.
532
00:31:50,742 --> 00:31:53,912
Innocent victim of circumstance.
533
00:31:54,079 --> 00:31:57,215
You know, she-- People put her down,
say she was a whore or whatever.
534
00:31:57,382 --> 00:31:59,551
She wasn't.
She was a very nice human being...
535
00:31:59,718 --> 00:32:01,887
...and I did love her and I still love her.
536
00:32:02,053 --> 00:32:03,855
I'll always love her, you know?
537
00:32:04,022 --> 00:32:08,627
And she got murdered needlessly.
She was 22 years old. I was 19.
538
00:32:08,794 --> 00:32:13,698
I lived. I had a long, good life
after that shooting...
539
00:32:13,865 --> 00:32:16,701
...but she got killed that day
and I can't forget that.
540
00:32:16,868 --> 00:32:19,871
It's a black mark on my life.
541
00:32:20,038 --> 00:32:22,174
I'd like to get closure for her case
and her family...
542
00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:25,577
...who suffered never knowing
who murdered their daughter...
543
00:32:25,744 --> 00:32:27,846
...Darlene's parents.
544
00:32:29,881 --> 00:32:32,751
I think I could see the color.
She had blue eyes.
545
00:32:32,918 --> 00:32:36,721
Her eyes were, you know,
partially opened.
546
00:32:38,256 --> 00:32:41,526
And she-- I could tell she was breathing.
547
00:32:41,693 --> 00:32:44,029
And she, you know, she responded to me
when I asked her:
548
00:32:44,196 --> 00:32:45,864
"Can you tell me what happened?"
549
00:32:46,031 --> 00:32:47,499
She was trying to say something...
550
00:32:47,666 --> 00:32:50,969
...but she was just so gone at that time
that just--
551
00:32:51,136 --> 00:32:54,139
I got my ear right up next to her mouth
and I, you know--
552
00:32:54,306 --> 00:32:57,976
Just nothing.
I couldn't make anything out.
553
00:32:59,478 --> 00:33:01,913
After the shooting
at Blue Rock Springs Park...
554
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,384
...the Zodiac, the shooter,
apparently drove back into Vallejo...
555
00:33:06,551 --> 00:33:10,889
...and drove down a street
called Tuolumne Street.
556
00:33:11,056 --> 00:33:14,993
And there's a-- At that time,
there was a Union 76 gas station...
557
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,963
...that was closed at the time.
558
00:33:18,129 --> 00:33:20,398
There's a public phone booth there.
559
00:33:20,565 --> 00:33:25,103
And he called the Vallejo Police Department
and claimed responsibility.
560
00:33:25,270 --> 00:33:31,776
Then the next call I got
was about 12:40.
561
00:33:33,445 --> 00:33:36,681
And that's the call that I received...
562
00:33:36,848 --> 00:33:42,220
...from the man
who was subsequently called the Zodiac.
563
00:33:42,387 --> 00:33:44,956
He spoke in a monotone.
564
00:33:46,358 --> 00:33:52,697
It's like he had rehearsed it
or was reading what he was saying.
565
00:33:52,864 --> 00:33:57,702
He had a very non-emotional...
566
00:33:58,603 --> 00:33:59,971
...voice, you know?
567
00:34:00,138 --> 00:34:05,210
His first words were,
"I wanna report a double murder.
568
00:34:05,377 --> 00:34:11,883
If you go one mile east
on Columbus Parkway...
569
00:34:12,083 --> 00:34:14,386
...to the public park..."
570
00:34:14,553 --> 00:34:19,024
And I said, "Yes, sir, we have a report
of a shooting in that area.
571
00:34:21,326 --> 00:34:24,563
I still need to get your name
and your location."
572
00:34:24,729 --> 00:34:30,001
And he said,
"You'll find the kids in a brown car.
573
00:34:31,069 --> 00:34:35,340
They were shot with a 9 mm Luger.
574
00:34:35,674 --> 00:34:38,510
And I also killed those kids last year."
575
00:34:40,045 --> 00:34:43,381
I got a very taunting...
576
00:34:46,017 --> 00:34:52,357
...scary-type, creepy feeling
from the call.
577
00:34:52,958 --> 00:34:57,329
And when he got to the end
of his statement--
578
00:34:58,396 --> 00:35:03,001
It's hard for me to duplicate.
--but instead of just saying--
579
00:35:03,168 --> 00:35:05,870
If you read my report, it means nothing.
580
00:35:06,037 --> 00:35:08,673
But if you hear...
581
00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:11,810
You know, if you could have heard...
582
00:35:12,043 --> 00:35:16,615
I can't explain it as well as I still hear it.
583
00:35:19,050 --> 00:35:25,557
You know, it was from somebody
who was really out there.
584
00:35:26,191 --> 00:35:31,863
But his voice really changed
when he came to "goodbye."
585
00:35:32,030 --> 00:35:34,766
And it wasn't just "goodbye"--
586
00:35:34,933 --> 00:35:38,503
Now it may sound a little silly to people.
587
00:35:38,670 --> 00:35:40,905
It didn't to me at the time.
588
00:35:41,072 --> 00:35:42,741
--but he said something like:
589
00:35:42,907 --> 00:35:46,711
"Goodbye."
590
00:35:47,712 --> 00:35:51,750
And he hangs up
and I'm just kind of sitting there...
591
00:35:52,317 --> 00:35:55,920
...thinking, "Oh, my God."
592
00:36:03,128 --> 00:36:06,197
We went up there
and just kind of on an impulse--
593
00:36:06,364 --> 00:36:09,601
I think there was a car
at the first turnout...
594
00:36:09,768 --> 00:36:12,003
...from the south end of the lake
going north.
595
00:36:12,170 --> 00:36:14,005
And the second one or the third one
was open.
596
00:36:15,674 --> 00:36:18,076
I turned in. I said,
"Let's go walk down by the lakeside."
597
00:36:18,243 --> 00:36:19,744
And we did.
598
00:36:20,145 --> 00:36:23,081
It was about probably a couple hundred
yards down to the edge of the lake.
599
00:36:25,083 --> 00:36:26,584
Because this particular turnout...
600
00:36:26,751 --> 00:36:29,320
...it wasn't necessarily
just going down to the shoreline...
601
00:36:29,487 --> 00:36:31,456
...it was actually out on a peninsula.
602
00:36:31,623 --> 00:36:35,794
And the peninsula during the wintertime
would be an island...
603
00:36:36,027 --> 00:36:38,196
...when the water was higher.
604
00:36:38,363 --> 00:36:43,702
And there were about three live oak trees
out on the peninsula.
605
00:36:43,868 --> 00:36:48,573
And we laid down a blanket,
and we're chatting.
606
00:36:57,716 --> 00:37:00,485
I ran into Cecilia in the-- At the cafeteria.
607
00:37:03,354 --> 00:37:05,356
It's a fairly small school and campus.
608
00:37:05,523 --> 00:37:08,193
Most of the meals are taken on-campus.
609
00:37:08,359 --> 00:37:09,994
And I ran into her.
610
00:37:10,161 --> 00:37:12,497
Probably a couple,
300 people in the cafeteria.
611
00:37:12,664 --> 00:37:16,067
And I happened to run into her,
she came to me, I don't remember which.
612
00:37:17,635 --> 00:37:20,138
We were still good friends.
We dated a couple of years before.
613
00:37:20,305 --> 00:37:22,874
-What school was this?
-Pacific Union College.
614
00:37:26,377 --> 00:37:28,079
And we decided to go into
San Francisco.
615
00:37:28,246 --> 00:37:31,816
We'd been in there many times
when we went to school there together.
616
00:37:31,983 --> 00:37:35,653
She was going, I think, to UC Riverside
at the time...
617
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:38,523
...and was just coming up
to visit friends.
618
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:40,024
So we went down to Saint Helena...
619
00:37:40,191 --> 00:37:42,727
...and I think we looked in a
rummage sale or something.
620
00:37:42,894 --> 00:37:45,463
We got distracted.
We didn't make it all the way out of town...
621
00:37:45,630 --> 00:37:47,398
...and then when we looked
at the clock...
622
00:37:47,565 --> 00:37:51,603
...it was clear that we were not gonna
make it to the city and back.
623
00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:55,907
I had some responsibilities that evening
that I had to be back for.
624
00:37:56,074 --> 00:38:00,411
So we decided instead
to take the loop up to Lake Berryessa.
625
00:38:00,578 --> 00:38:03,081
There's a lot of activity up at Berryessa
during the summer...
626
00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:08,787
...but after Labor Day, it quiets down.
And this was September 27th...
627
00:38:08,953 --> 00:38:11,122
...probably three and a half weeks
after Labor Day.
628
00:38:11,289 --> 00:38:14,859
So it was a very, very quiet
Saturday evening up there.
629
00:38:15,026 --> 00:38:16,694
The weather was nice.
630
00:38:16,861 --> 00:38:19,397
Napa's kind of a secluded community.
631
00:38:19,564 --> 00:38:23,802
We're bordered on both sides
by major highways:
632
00:38:23,968 --> 00:38:28,273
Highway 80 to our east
and Highway 101 to our west.
633
00:38:28,439 --> 00:38:30,942
So we don't get a lot of the traffic
coming through Napa...
634
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:32,677
...that some of the other cities do.
635
00:38:32,844 --> 00:38:35,480
So we have a relatively low crime rate.
636
00:38:35,647 --> 00:38:39,217
We sometimes go several years
without a homicide.
637
00:38:40,018 --> 00:38:42,687
I think that particular year
we had five or six...
638
00:38:42,854 --> 00:38:45,523
...which was unusual.
639
00:38:53,698 --> 00:38:59,604
It was a Saturday late in the afternoon,
around 6:15.
640
00:38:59,771 --> 00:39:04,876
I was on patrol.
The dispatcher notified me by radio...
641
00:39:05,043 --> 00:39:07,312
...that he had received a report...
642
00:39:10,181 --> 00:39:14,352
...of a double stabbing at Lake Berryessa
and I was to respond.
643
00:39:14,786 --> 00:39:19,557
So I notified my partner,
who was Deputy Ray Land--
644
00:39:19,724 --> 00:39:22,160
At the time was in Saint Helena.
645
00:39:22,327 --> 00:39:27,866
I was in Napa
on the northeast side of town.
646
00:39:28,032 --> 00:39:32,036
We both began to proceed
to Lake Berryessa.
647
00:39:42,914 --> 00:39:45,583
The shoreline at that spot
was a little on the steep side...
648
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:50,788
...so that I could lay on my back
and pretty much see out across the lake.
649
00:39:50,955 --> 00:39:55,960
She was laying somewhat diagonally
with her hands on my chest...
650
00:39:56,127 --> 00:39:59,764
...and we were probably about 12 inches,
our faces, apart and we were talking.
651
00:39:59,931 --> 00:40:03,201
And I noticed that she was
becoming distracted.
652
00:40:05,937 --> 00:40:08,239
She said, "There's a man over there."
653
00:40:08,406 --> 00:40:10,608
And I assumed,
since we were out on a peninsula...
654
00:40:10,775 --> 00:40:16,981
...and there was a spit of water between
where we were and the next area over--
655
00:40:17,148 --> 00:40:18,750
It's kind of hard to describe.
656
00:40:18,917 --> 00:40:25,089
With a reservoir, you have more peninsulas
and irregular shoreline...
657
00:40:25,256 --> 00:40:29,594
...because you're filling up a ravine,
if you will.
658
00:40:29,761 --> 00:40:35,333
Where a lake, if it's been there a long time,
it's pretty much rounded around the edge.
659
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,568
This wasn't that old a reservoir...
660
00:40:37,735 --> 00:40:40,505
...and so as a consequence,
you had a very irregular shoreline.
661
00:40:40,672 --> 00:40:42,907
And we're at one area,
then there was water in between...
662
00:40:43,074 --> 00:40:45,743
...then there was another area,
another place where people could go.
663
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:48,446
And I thought they were
on the other side of the water.
664
00:40:49,814 --> 00:40:52,550
And everybody who's not a tree,
could we clear out this way?
665
00:40:52,717 --> 00:40:54,819
See, that's a tree,
that's a tree, that's a tree.
666
00:40:54,986 --> 00:40:57,288
And that's the one
he probably was behind.
667
00:40:57,455 --> 00:40:59,257
We're a little closer, but...
668
00:40:59,424 --> 00:41:04,662
Remember we talked about the fact
that this is all eroded.
669
00:41:04,829 --> 00:41:09,100
So that was the closest tree.
There was a tree there.
670
00:41:09,267 --> 00:41:14,439
That puts me probably
about in here, okay?
671
00:41:14,605 --> 00:41:17,675
And I'm facing this way,
laying on my back.
672
00:41:17,842 --> 00:41:21,045
And Cecilia is on her stomach,
facing this way.
673
00:41:21,212 --> 00:41:24,248
Actually, facing kind of like this.
674
00:41:24,415 --> 00:41:27,251
So she's-- Her head's facing that way.
675
00:41:27,418 --> 00:41:32,357
And we're talking. And when she says,
"I see a man over there"...
676
00:41:32,523 --> 00:41:36,461
...what I'm thinking is,
if you look to the left of her...
677
00:41:36,627 --> 00:41:38,429
...you can see those trees on that hill.
678
00:41:38,596 --> 00:41:41,866
That would be another picnic area.
679
00:41:42,033 --> 00:41:44,902
So seeing someone on that hill...
680
00:41:45,069 --> 00:41:48,773
...you know, would be of interest
but not of any great urgency.
681
00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:53,244
But seeing someone as close as her
would obviously be some cause for concern.
682
00:41:53,411 --> 00:41:58,282
And so I'm continuing to talk,
and then she says, "He went behind a tree."
683
00:41:58,449 --> 00:42:01,085
And so he goes behind the tree
where she is.
684
00:42:01,252 --> 00:42:04,489
And again, I'm thinking
behind those trees over there.
685
00:42:05,757 --> 00:42:08,493
So then when she says:
686
00:42:09,694 --> 00:42:11,329
"Oh, he's got a gun"...
687
00:42:11,496 --> 00:42:13,965
...he's walking this direction.
688
00:42:14,132 --> 00:42:15,633
And I turn around.
689
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,071
And from there to here,
he's probably made it to about here.
690
00:42:21,172 --> 00:42:24,809
So we're about half the distance
between the tree and me.
691
00:42:25,443 --> 00:42:30,548
And so that was
my first running into him.
692
00:42:30,715 --> 00:42:34,052
And it was really somewhat of a surprise
that he was that close...
693
00:42:34,218 --> 00:42:36,287
...because, again, I was looking
at the other area.
694
00:42:38,489 --> 00:42:42,260
I'll tell you another thing that probably made
me think that it was somebody over there.
695
00:42:42,427 --> 00:42:43,995
It wasn't an improved park site.
696
00:42:44,162 --> 00:42:46,664
There wasn't regular
established bathrooms...
697
00:42:46,831 --> 00:42:48,666
...so if you had to use the restroom...
698
00:42:48,833 --> 00:42:52,904
...you'd just kind of get out of eyeshot
of whoever you were with...
699
00:42:53,071 --> 00:42:55,740
...or go behind a tree
or something like that.
700
00:42:55,907 --> 00:42:57,742
So when she says,
"He went behind a tree"...
701
00:42:57,909 --> 00:43:00,211
...that actually validated
what I thought was happening...
702
00:43:00,378 --> 00:43:02,346
...on the-- You know,
thousand feet away...
703
00:43:02,513 --> 00:43:06,651
...that someone was actually relieving
themselves behind a tree, and I commented.
704
00:43:07,952 --> 00:43:09,387
She still wasn't paying attention...
705
00:43:09,554 --> 00:43:11,456
...which, to me,
was kind of distracting...
706
00:43:11,622 --> 00:43:13,925
...because why should you worry
if someone that far away...
707
00:43:14,092 --> 00:43:15,827
...was doing whatever they were doing?
708
00:43:15,993 --> 00:43:18,996
And then her eyes got wide
and she says:
709
00:43:19,163 --> 00:43:20,531
"Oh, my God, he's got a gun."
710
00:43:24,335 --> 00:43:27,105
And I turn around
and I'm faced with this man...
711
00:43:27,271 --> 00:43:30,875
...not running,
but walking briskly toward me...
712
00:43:31,776 --> 00:43:33,644
...with a gun in his hand,
wearing a hood.
713
00:43:33,811 --> 00:43:38,015
Black hood. It comes down in the front,
across his chest and back up...
714
00:43:38,182 --> 00:43:40,685
...like an overlay or a dickey.
715
00:43:40,852 --> 00:43:42,753
I'm assuming
it was on the back as well...
716
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,022
...although I don't remember
seeing it on the back.
717
00:43:45,189 --> 00:43:50,495
And on the front was about
a 4-inch-across circle with cross hairs.
718
00:43:50,661 --> 00:43:55,600
And it looked like it was made with
a machine or with some degree of care.
719
00:43:55,766 --> 00:43:58,136
It wasn't just scrawled on
with white paint.
720
00:43:58,302 --> 00:43:59,904
It was proportional.
721
00:44:00,071 --> 00:44:02,940
But, you know, at the time,
it really didn't strike me...
722
00:44:03,107 --> 00:44:06,811
...because it was just something that
a person was putting over themselves...
723
00:44:06,978 --> 00:44:08,312
...so that they wouldn't be seen.
724
00:44:08,479 --> 00:44:11,082
I mean, it could have come
from a costume shop or a novelty store.
725
00:44:11,249 --> 00:44:13,518
The symbolism on it
really didn't mean anything.
726
00:44:13,684 --> 00:44:17,855
He didn't identify himself
as being the Zodiac.
727
00:44:18,022 --> 00:44:20,324
In fact, as soon as I get up, he goes:
728
00:44:20,491 --> 00:44:22,960
"Okay, hold on, everybody.
Nothing to be afraid of.
729
00:44:23,127 --> 00:44:26,831
All I want is your money.
And I need your car.
730
00:44:26,998 --> 00:44:30,101
If everybody stays cool,
nobody's gonna get hurt."
731
00:44:30,268 --> 00:44:32,937
And I believed him.
732
00:44:34,605 --> 00:44:38,276
The only thing, to me--
This came out since then.
733
00:44:38,442 --> 00:44:40,278
But he told me, at that time...
734
00:44:40,444 --> 00:44:42,780
...that he had killed a guard
getting out of a prison.
735
00:44:42,947 --> 00:44:46,284
And so I did take him as a killer.
736
00:44:47,818 --> 00:44:49,453
To me, a killer isn't a normal person...
737
00:44:49,620 --> 00:44:51,856
...so I assumed, at the time,
that something was wrong...
738
00:44:52,023 --> 00:44:56,694
...but as far as a psychopath
or any other aberration...
739
00:44:56,861 --> 00:44:58,496
...I really didn't realize at the moment.
740
00:44:58,663 --> 00:45:00,898
I wasn't concerned,
because I was cooperating with him...
741
00:45:01,065 --> 00:45:04,001
...and I expected
that he would cooperate with me.
742
00:45:04,168 --> 00:45:07,672
And I tried to be as accommodating,
under the circumstances, as possible...
743
00:45:07,838 --> 00:45:10,408
...to save the girl, you know, any harm.
744
00:45:10,575 --> 00:45:12,310
He wanted our money.
745
00:45:12,476 --> 00:45:14,078
And I actually laughed at the moment...
746
00:45:14,245 --> 00:45:17,982
...because I told him, I says,
"I've only got 75 cents in my pocket."
747
00:45:18,149 --> 00:45:19,850
And I said, "You're welcome to have it.
748
00:45:20,017 --> 00:45:22,820
But if you need help,
I'm sure I can give you help otherwise."
749
00:45:22,987 --> 00:45:24,755
And I asked him what his problem was.
750
00:45:24,922 --> 00:45:27,725
And he mentioned that he was a convict
trying to get to Mexico...
751
00:45:27,892 --> 00:45:30,628
...and needed money and transportation.
752
00:45:30,795 --> 00:45:32,463
And I offered him assistance.
753
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:34,332
I told him what I was doing in school...
754
00:45:34,498 --> 00:45:38,269
...and that if I could be
of any assistance whatsoever...
755
00:45:38,436 --> 00:45:40,538
I offered him my phone number,
anything like this.
756
00:45:40,705 --> 00:45:43,140
This just isn't what he wanted.
He said he wanted money.
757
00:45:43,307 --> 00:45:45,810
And I was really sorry.
I said, "I've got a check.
758
00:45:45,977 --> 00:45:49,180
I'd really like to help you
if you'd be willing to accept help."
759
00:45:49,347 --> 00:45:51,782
He said, "Well, what I need right now
is to get you tied up."
760
00:45:54,318 --> 00:45:58,623
He pulled some cuts
of 3-foot lengths of clothesline.
761
00:45:58,789 --> 00:46:03,094
It's actually plastic.
It's the kind that's hollow in the center.
762
00:46:03,261 --> 00:46:05,963
And he handed those to Cecilia
and asked her to tie me up.
763
00:46:06,130 --> 00:46:09,133
Of course, she was real nervous,
and tied me rather loosely.
764
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:12,136
And he came
and he tightened the knots up.
765
00:46:12,303 --> 00:46:13,938
And then he tied her up.
766
00:46:14,105 --> 00:46:18,009
And we continued to dialogue
along most of this time.
767
00:46:18,175 --> 00:46:21,112
I'm trying to engage him
in conversation the whole time.
768
00:46:21,279 --> 00:46:25,249
"Where you been? What's--?"
You know, "Where are you headed?"
769
00:46:27,285 --> 00:46:29,220
Trying to ask follow-up questions.
770
00:46:29,387 --> 00:46:34,225
I was taking a sociology class and I thought
I might be able to squeeze a paper out of it.
771
00:46:34,392 --> 00:46:36,427
While she was tying me up...
772
00:46:36,594 --> 00:46:39,397
...I mentioned to her
that I thought that I could get the gun.
773
00:46:39,563 --> 00:46:42,466
That if I was just to move
a little bit closer...
774
00:46:42,633 --> 00:46:44,435
...I could reach over and get it.
775
00:46:44,602 --> 00:46:46,437
And she said,
"Oh, no, no, don't try anything."
776
00:46:46,604 --> 00:46:48,906
Well, he stepped back
about two or three feet from that...
777
00:46:49,073 --> 00:46:50,908
...and I never really had
an opportunity again.
778
00:46:51,075 --> 00:46:53,644
You know, the odds are,
if someone's robbing you...
779
00:46:53,811 --> 00:46:55,313
...you should cooperate...
780
00:46:55,479 --> 00:46:56,947
...and don't try any heroics...
781
00:46:57,114 --> 00:47:01,152
...because you stand a much greater chance
of having harm occur.
782
00:47:01,319 --> 00:47:03,521
And I felt
if I was gonna change the odds...
783
00:47:03,688 --> 00:47:05,489
...I probably at least ought to ask her.
784
00:47:05,656 --> 00:47:09,193
And obviously she declined
and I never had the opportunity again.
785
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:10,428
As soon as we were tied...
786
00:47:10,594 --> 00:47:14,365
...he then said he wanted me to get down
and lay on my stomach...
787
00:47:14,532 --> 00:47:16,901
...so that he could tie my feet and tie...
788
00:47:17,068 --> 00:47:19,704
And I kind of fussed with him a bit
and I said--
789
00:47:19,870 --> 00:47:23,407
You know, it was really cold
in the evenings.
790
00:47:23,574 --> 00:47:25,176
Which really wasn't so much cold...
791
00:47:25,343 --> 00:47:28,412
...it was just the inconvenience
of being stuck out all night.
792
00:47:28,579 --> 00:47:30,715
And he said, "I said, get down."
793
00:47:30,881 --> 00:47:32,883
And he put the gun at me.
794
00:47:33,050 --> 00:47:36,587
He tied us up, with our feet,
then our feet to our hands.
795
00:47:36,754 --> 00:47:38,989
So we were essentially hogtied.
796
00:47:39,156 --> 00:47:42,593
And I got the impression
we were kind of getting near the end.
797
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,795
I mean, there wasn't anything much more
he could do.
798
00:47:44,962 --> 00:47:49,133
He was gonna leave, he was gonna take
my keys, take whatever money I had there.
799
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,536
And I kind of looked around, and I said:
800
00:47:52,703 --> 00:47:56,741
"Can you do me a favor?
Tell me, was the gun really loaded?"
801
00:47:56,907 --> 00:47:59,310
I don't know where I'd read it,
but I'd read it someplace...
802
00:47:59,477 --> 00:48:01,312
...that people that do robberies...
803
00:48:01,479 --> 00:48:03,981
...didn't wanna ever be convicted
of shooting somebody...
804
00:48:04,148 --> 00:48:07,051
...so that on many occasions,
they would leave the gun unloaded...
805
00:48:07,218 --> 00:48:09,587
...so if something happened,
they wouldn't shoot somebody...
806
00:48:09,754 --> 00:48:11,956
...and their penalty,
if they were caught, was less.
807
00:48:12,123 --> 00:48:13,858
It sounds preposterous
in this day and age...
808
00:48:14,024 --> 00:48:16,360
...because, I mean,
everybody has loaded guns.
809
00:48:16,527 --> 00:48:18,596
But that's what I had read.
And I asked him. I said:
810
00:48:18,763 --> 00:48:20,464
"Is the gun really loaded?"
811
00:48:20,631 --> 00:48:23,033
He pulls the gun and pulls out the clip...
812
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:24,969
...and shows me a full clip.
813
00:48:25,136 --> 00:48:29,507
Puts it back, sticks it back in his--
Sticks it in his holster.
814
00:48:29,673 --> 00:48:32,143
And I'm thinking,
"Okay. You know, that's interesting."
815
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:36,914
And I put my head down because
it's like he put the gun away.
816
00:48:37,081 --> 00:48:38,582
He's gonna leave now.
817
00:48:38,749 --> 00:48:40,151
Obviously, we couldn't do anything.
818
00:48:40,317 --> 00:48:44,088
We're tied up and I'm obviously
not gonna be making any moves.
819
00:48:44,255 --> 00:48:47,091
And I'm just kind of trying
to collect my thoughts:
820
00:48:47,258 --> 00:48:49,393
"What are we gonna do?
How am I gonna get out of this?"
821
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,896
You know, figuring out
what options we had.
822
00:48:52,062 --> 00:48:55,933
And I saw out of the-- Just a kind of a flash
out of the corner of my eye...
823
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:59,170
...he pulls the knife, and the next thing
I know is I feel it in my back.
824
00:49:02,907 --> 00:49:05,142
He stabbed me, I think, six times...
825
00:49:05,309 --> 00:49:07,344
...and they were
in fairly quick succession.
826
00:49:07,511 --> 00:49:09,713
The difference, of course, was Cecilia.
827
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,282
She saw what was happening.
828
00:49:11,449 --> 00:49:12,783
She saw what was happening then...
829
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:15,486
...and I'm sure she must have known
what was gonna happen to her.
830
00:49:15,653 --> 00:49:17,488
So she's saying, "Stop, stop."
831
00:49:17,655 --> 00:49:19,557
She's trying to roll away.
832
00:49:19,723 --> 00:49:21,525
She's petrified, obviously.
833
00:49:21,692 --> 00:49:23,527
I mean, she was scared to begin with...
834
00:49:23,694 --> 00:49:28,599
...and then when she saw this, it--
She knew what was gonna happen.
835
00:49:29,567 --> 00:49:32,303
When he goes to stab her, she's moving.
836
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:34,472
I mean, I'm basically a stationary person.
837
00:49:34,638 --> 00:49:36,574
He has a place to stab and he's doing it.
838
00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:40,010
With her, she's rolling away...
839
00:49:40,177 --> 00:49:45,416
...and, you know,
to be perfectly frank, if...
840
00:49:45,916 --> 00:49:47,818
What they've captured on the film...
841
00:49:47,985 --> 00:49:51,655
...that you see
when Cecilia is being stabbed, that's--
842
00:49:51,822 --> 00:49:54,058
And I never had anything
to do with the scene.
843
00:49:54,225 --> 00:49:57,628
But that's the flash I saw happening.
844
00:49:57,795 --> 00:50:00,097
And I had to look away.
845
00:50:00,264 --> 00:50:04,201
At about the time you would look away,
that's when that piece ends in the film.
846
00:50:04,368 --> 00:50:10,341
It's an eerie reproduction
of what happened in my vision.
847
00:50:10,508 --> 00:50:12,977
I couldn't have scripted it better.
848
00:50:13,143 --> 00:50:15,713
Because it was--
You know, that was happening.
849
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,516
And I was seeing-- I remember saying,
"She's gonna die."
850
00:50:18,682 --> 00:50:21,285
And I put my head back.
I just could not look any further.
851
00:50:21,452 --> 00:50:23,687
Now, when I put my head back...
852
00:50:23,854 --> 00:50:26,323
...it flashed upon me
that if I'm moving around...
853
00:50:26,490 --> 00:50:28,459
...he's gonna come back
and finish me off.
854
00:50:28,626 --> 00:50:30,327
So I froze. Quit breathing.
855
00:50:30,494 --> 00:50:34,398
I swear I could have stopped breathing
for 10 minutes.
856
00:50:34,565 --> 00:50:37,801
But I-- Pretty soon,
she lost consciousness...
857
00:50:37,968 --> 00:50:41,605
...or he felt he'd done
an adequate job to kill her...
858
00:50:42,606 --> 00:50:45,376
...and I sensed
that he was standing there looking...
859
00:50:45,543 --> 00:50:48,379
...and then he just walked off.
860
00:51:16,073 --> 00:51:18,175
I thought I was dying.
861
00:51:20,077 --> 00:51:22,413
It started to get real dark around me.
862
00:51:22,580 --> 00:51:25,282
It's kind of like if you're going
into an anesthetic, I suppose.
863
00:51:25,449 --> 00:51:30,054
You're just-- All of a sudden,
your consciousness is disappearing.
864
00:51:31,455 --> 00:51:33,390
It's probably like an electric motor.
865
00:51:33,557 --> 00:51:36,226
When you shut off an electric motor,
it doesn't turn off right away.
866
00:51:36,393 --> 00:51:39,697
There's a flywheel
that takes a while to slow down.
867
00:51:39,863 --> 00:51:41,832
And I felt that just slowing down.
868
00:51:41,999 --> 00:51:44,868
And I knew I was gonna die.
869
00:51:46,003 --> 00:51:49,740
And then it-- Just before
it was, like, lights out...
870
00:51:49,907 --> 00:51:51,475
...it kind of leveled off.
871
00:51:51,642 --> 00:51:54,278
I mean-- You know, it's kind of
you're waiting to hit the ground...
872
00:51:54,445 --> 00:51:56,347
...and you don't hit the ground
and I'm thinking:
873
00:51:56,513 --> 00:51:59,316
"Wait a minute.
Maybe I've got a shot here."
874
00:51:59,483 --> 00:52:03,354
And so I started talking to her and...
875
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,756
She was in a lot of pain.
876
00:52:08,192 --> 00:52:09,994
Crying...
877
00:52:11,028 --> 00:52:13,364
...really upset, obviously.
878
00:52:13,530 --> 00:52:18,435
I was able to, with my teeth,
loosen her knots enough to--
879
00:52:18,602 --> 00:52:21,271
But her hands were-- It was so tight
that her hands were still numb.
880
00:52:21,438 --> 00:52:24,975
And I asked her if she could get mine
undone and she couldn't move them.
881
00:52:25,142 --> 00:52:27,211
She really wasn't
in any position to move.
882
00:52:27,378 --> 00:52:29,813
I mean, she was pretty badly injured.
883
00:52:29,980 --> 00:52:32,282
I got till I was able
to untie one of her hands.
884
00:52:32,449 --> 00:52:34,585
But she was too weak to untie me
at that time.
885
00:52:34,752 --> 00:52:38,789
So I scooted into a position where
I could be looking out across the lake.
886
00:52:38,956 --> 00:52:41,158
And after calling several times,
I found one position...
887
00:52:41,325 --> 00:52:44,361
...that had a little more echo to it,
that I thought was a little louder.
888
00:52:44,528 --> 00:52:46,797
I called, and several boats went by,
but they didn't stop.
889
00:52:46,964 --> 00:52:48,699
I don't know if they thought
we were joking.
890
00:52:48,866 --> 00:52:51,035
But finally, one fisherman
who was going real slow...
891
00:52:51,201 --> 00:52:53,170
...he stopped. He'd shut off his motor.
892
00:52:53,337 --> 00:52:56,907
And we cajoled and called and we did
everything to try to get him to come.
893
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:08,552
If I recall correctly, there was an island
about maybe 50 yards off the edge.
894
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:09,753
Probably not even that.
895
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,457
The island was fairly close
and the little boat went in between.
896
00:53:13,624 --> 00:53:15,959
And I got its attention...
897
00:53:16,126 --> 00:53:18,228
...screaming and hollering at them.
898
00:53:18,395 --> 00:53:21,965
Turned off the engine and looked.
899
00:53:22,132 --> 00:53:26,203
It seemed like forever. And I'm begging him
to come over and help us.
900
00:53:28,238 --> 00:53:30,941
I could see two figures in the boat.
901
00:53:32,943 --> 00:53:35,746
He turned the engine on,
went down the lake.
902
00:53:35,913 --> 00:53:39,783
I thought, "We're sunk.
I don't know what we're gonna do."
903
00:53:48,659 --> 00:53:51,562
At about that time,
I felt hands at my back.
904
00:53:51,729 --> 00:53:54,331
And she'd gotten enough strength
and enough energy in her hands...
905
00:53:54,498 --> 00:53:57,034
...that she was able
to get one knot loose enough...
906
00:53:57,201 --> 00:54:00,704
...that I was able to--
Then with my own hands and working it...
907
00:54:00,871 --> 00:54:02,439
...be able to get my hands free.
908
00:54:02,606 --> 00:54:06,677
I untied her legs and my legs and feet.
909
00:54:07,544 --> 00:54:09,780
Started getting some circulation
back in it.
910
00:54:09,947 --> 00:54:12,382
And after a little bit, I thought,
"You know, I'm gonna--
911
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:16,787
The only way around this, I'm gonna
have to make it back up to the road."
912
00:54:18,388 --> 00:54:21,892
So I got up
and I made it about five feet...
913
00:54:22,059 --> 00:54:24,094
...and the sparkles
and the darkness came back...
914
00:54:24,261 --> 00:54:28,065
...and I had to drop down immediately
to keep from passing out.
915
00:54:28,232 --> 00:54:31,602
I just-- I'd lost too much blood.
I had no energy to move.
916
00:54:35,305 --> 00:54:38,108
So I waited a minute,
got some more strength.
917
00:54:38,275 --> 00:54:40,244
"Okay, I'm gonna have to do this
a little slower."
918
00:54:40,410 --> 00:54:42,846
I made it another five feet
and dropped down myself.
919
00:54:43,013 --> 00:54:46,183
So I just started
taking five-, 10-feet intervals.
920
00:54:46,350 --> 00:54:49,052
And I found that if I wasn't
really trying to walk fast...
921
00:54:49,219 --> 00:54:52,623
...if I would bend over
and hold my hands around my chest...
922
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:55,959
...and kind of walk bent over
and walk slower...
923
00:54:56,126 --> 00:54:59,596
...I could make more distance
between having to stop and rest.
924
00:54:59,763 --> 00:55:02,499
I made it about halfway to the road.
925
00:55:02,666 --> 00:55:08,839
There was a little kind of a utility
dirt trail, road, what have you...
926
00:55:09,006 --> 00:55:13,110
...that the Forest Service
must have used for their patrols.
927
00:55:13,277 --> 00:55:14,878
And I saw some lights coming.
928
00:55:15,045 --> 00:55:17,047
And so I stopped in the road...
929
00:55:17,214 --> 00:55:20,784
...and kind of on my hands and knees,
I was waving at them.
930
00:55:20,951 --> 00:55:23,120
The vehicle stopped.
931
00:55:23,287 --> 00:55:25,255
And I saw somebody
get out of the truck...
932
00:55:25,422 --> 00:55:30,861
...that was wearing a heavy jacket
and a flashlight and I couldn't see the face.
933
00:55:31,028 --> 00:55:32,629
And I thought,
"Oh, no, he's come back."
934
00:55:34,832 --> 00:55:37,768
Well, then he turned slightly,
when he came around as far as the lights...
935
00:55:37,935 --> 00:55:43,273
...and I could see that he had some type
of an official emblem on the side.
936
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:44,541
And he'd come to help us.
937
00:55:44,708 --> 00:55:48,145
Apparently, the fisherman, knowing that
there was a Ranger station up the way...
938
00:55:48,312 --> 00:55:52,049
...had gone up and alerted them,
and then they came to find us.
939
00:56:03,727 --> 00:56:05,462
He...
940
00:56:11,802 --> 00:56:18,308
The most remarkable thing,
in my mind, about this...
941
00:56:20,677 --> 00:56:26,083
...is how Bryan Hartnell fought...
942
00:56:27,084 --> 00:56:33,156
...to stay awake
and fought to keep his consciousness...
943
00:56:33,323 --> 00:56:38,528
...and fought to get help for Cecilia...
944
00:56:38,695 --> 00:56:40,163
...more than himself.
945
00:56:40,330 --> 00:56:41,665
That must have been--
946
00:56:41,832 --> 00:56:46,169
That was a heck of an ordeal,
crawling up to that road.
947
00:56:46,336 --> 00:56:50,374
And I just admire the guy.
948
00:56:50,540 --> 00:56:53,911
Deputy Land and myself arrived
at just about the same time.
949
00:56:54,077 --> 00:56:57,614
It took us a half-hour
from Napa and/or Saint Helena...
950
00:56:57,781 --> 00:57:00,317
...to arrive at the location.
951
00:57:00,484 --> 00:57:04,021
And we later found out, of course...
952
00:57:04,187 --> 00:57:08,325
...that the whole crime had been committed
at least a half-hour before we were notified.
953
00:57:08,492 --> 00:57:12,863
So we feel that a good hour has gone by.
954
00:57:13,030 --> 00:57:17,034
The road that we traveled over
to get to this location...
955
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:22,172
...is a very mountainous,
curving, two-lane road...
956
00:57:22,339 --> 00:57:24,541
...with a lot of blind curves.
957
00:57:24,708 --> 00:57:26,743
And so driving in an emergency...
958
00:57:26,910 --> 00:57:30,314
...it was very difficult to get there
any faster than we did.
959
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:36,386
It took me 30 minutes from the intersection
of Vichy and Monticello Road in Napa.
960
00:57:36,553 --> 00:57:40,958
And I figure, with the timing
that we have discovered...
961
00:57:41,124 --> 00:57:44,027
...that the Zodiac came down the road...
962
00:57:44,194 --> 00:57:48,332
...and passed me at some point,
going into the city of Napa...
963
00:57:48,498 --> 00:57:51,935
...to make his boastful phone call.
964
00:57:52,102 --> 00:57:54,805
At that time, I was a police officer
assigned to the Patrol Division.
965
00:57:58,108 --> 00:58:00,344
Because we were a small department,
when the dispatcher--
966
00:58:00,510 --> 00:58:02,412
We had a one-person dispatch.
967
00:58:02,579 --> 00:58:04,648
When they went on their lunch break...
968
00:58:04,815 --> 00:58:07,584
...the rookie cop got to go in and fill in...
969
00:58:07,751 --> 00:58:10,053
...as the relief dispatcher.
970
00:58:10,220 --> 00:58:13,156
On this particular night,
that's what happened.
971
00:58:13,323 --> 00:58:14,891
I was out on patrol...
972
00:58:15,058 --> 00:58:18,228
...went in to relieve the dispatcher
for her lunch break...
973
00:58:18,395 --> 00:58:21,531
...and it was during the time period
that I was filling in for her...
974
00:58:21,698 --> 00:58:24,334
...that the call came into
the police department.
975
00:58:24,501 --> 00:58:28,271
Our switchboard was the old cord type...
976
00:58:28,438 --> 00:58:30,774
...that you plug in when a call comes in.
977
00:58:30,941 --> 00:58:32,809
The phone rang...
978
00:58:32,976 --> 00:58:35,979
...and I recall saying:
979
00:58:36,146 --> 00:58:38,715
"Officer Slaight,
Napa Police Department."
980
00:58:38,882 --> 00:58:41,618
There was a male voice
on the other end of the phone...
981
00:58:41,785 --> 00:58:45,956
...and he said,
"I want to report a murder.
982
00:58:46,123 --> 00:58:48,992
No, a double murder.
983
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:52,996
They're two miles
north of park headquarters...
984
00:58:53,163 --> 00:58:57,534
...and they were in
a white Volkswagen Karmann Ghia."
985
00:58:58,235 --> 00:59:03,573
My first thought was the Ranger
that had found these young people...
986
00:59:03,740 --> 00:59:05,675
...had stopped someone and said:
987
00:59:05,842 --> 00:59:07,411
"I can't get out on my radio.
988
00:59:07,577 --> 00:59:13,583
Would you get to a phone and call
and let someone know what's going on?"
989
00:59:13,750 --> 00:59:16,520
So my impulse was
to find out where he was...
990
00:59:16,686 --> 00:59:19,189
...so we could get someone to him
to talk to.
991
00:59:19,356 --> 00:59:21,625
I ask, "Where are you now?"
992
00:59:21,792 --> 00:59:25,028
At that point, he said, very calmly:
993
00:59:25,195 --> 00:59:27,264
"I'm the one that did it."
994
00:59:27,431 --> 00:59:31,134
He had a very precise cadence
to his voice.
995
00:59:31,301 --> 00:59:35,605
Not an accent, but slow and measured:
996
00:59:35,772 --> 00:59:37,274
"All I want's your money."
997
00:59:37,441 --> 00:59:39,943
Had a real distinctive tone about it...
998
00:59:40,110 --> 00:59:42,712
...which I told the police then
that if I ever heard it again...
999
00:59:42,879 --> 00:59:44,281
...I would be able to recognize it.
1000
00:59:44,448 --> 00:59:47,717
I haven't heard it again,
but it had a very unique sound.
1001
00:59:48,452 --> 00:59:52,489
And all of a sudden, I heard a clatter.
1002
00:59:52,656 --> 00:59:55,492
Didn't exactly understand what it was.
1003
00:59:55,659 --> 00:59:59,062
And what he had done, apparently,
is just dropped the phone from his hand...
1004
00:59:59,229 --> 01:00:00,564
...and let it dangle.
1005
01:00:01,298 --> 01:00:04,167
We learned later
that it was a phone booth.
1006
01:00:04,334 --> 01:00:07,204
As I sat there with the open phone...
1007
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:12,442
...I could hear voices in the background
and the traffic.
1008
01:00:15,545 --> 01:00:18,582
So at that point I called
the sheriff's office on another line...
1009
01:00:18,748 --> 01:00:20,717
...kept the one line open...
1010
01:00:20,884 --> 01:00:23,320
...told the sheriff's office
what had happened...
1011
01:00:23,487 --> 01:00:28,625
...called the operator, asked if we could
trace where this phone call had come from.
1012
01:00:28,792 --> 01:00:32,028
I believe it was about 8:30
in the evening...
1013
01:00:32,195 --> 01:00:36,066
...when I was at the
Queen of the Valley Hospital...
1014
01:00:36,233 --> 01:00:38,168
...or maybe right after I'd left there...
1015
01:00:38,335 --> 01:00:41,271
...that the police department
had called the sheriff's office...
1016
01:00:41,438 --> 01:00:45,775
...and said that they'd received a phone call
from an unknown individual.
1017
01:00:46,209 --> 01:00:48,545
The sheriff's office had broadcast--
1018
01:00:48,712 --> 01:00:52,082
I possibly had broadcast,
I'm not absolutely positive...
1019
01:00:52,249 --> 01:00:56,419
...that they have-- This person
had left the phone off the hook.
1020
01:00:56,586 --> 01:01:00,090
As it turned out, one of the local
reporters for the newspaper...
1021
01:01:00,257 --> 01:01:02,893
...had heard this broadcast
on his scanner...
1022
01:01:03,059 --> 01:01:05,962
...and so he started driving around
the city of Napa...
1023
01:01:06,129 --> 01:01:08,031
...to see if he could find a phone...
1024
01:01:08,198 --> 01:01:11,735
...and he was the one
that actually saw the phone.
1025
01:01:11,902 --> 01:01:18,041
He then was yelling,
"Can you hear me? Can you hear me?"
1026
01:01:18,208 --> 01:01:21,611
And I could hear the voice
and that's how we located the phone.
1027
01:01:21,778 --> 01:01:26,049
The operator had not gotten back to us
with the location of that phone at that time.
1028
01:01:26,216 --> 01:01:28,351
Of course, I immediately called
for an ID man...
1029
01:01:28,518 --> 01:01:32,155
...to go to the phone booth and preserve
whatever evidence was possible.
1030
01:01:32,322 --> 01:01:36,660
And he spent quite a few hours there
and recovered literally...
1031
01:01:36,826 --> 01:01:39,196
...dozens and dozens of fingerprints...
1032
01:01:39,362 --> 01:01:42,832
...that have not been identified
to this day.
1033
01:01:42,999 --> 01:01:48,271
Some of them were so fresh
that he had to artificially dry them...
1034
01:01:48,438 --> 01:01:51,241
...so that he could lift the print,
because it was too moist.
1035
01:01:51,408 --> 01:01:56,479
When we arrived at the scene,
Cecilia Shepard was in a fetal position...
1036
01:01:56,646 --> 01:02:00,784
...on the ground
at the base of an oak tree.
1037
01:02:00,951 --> 01:02:05,255
She was laying on a blanket
and had been wrapped in a blanket.
1038
01:02:05,422 --> 01:02:09,559
I immediately went to her
to see if I could administer first aid...
1039
01:02:09,726 --> 01:02:12,195
...or do something to help her.
1040
01:02:12,362 --> 01:02:16,166
She was crying
and she told me she was so cold.
1041
01:02:16,333 --> 01:02:17,801
She was having a hard time talking...
1042
01:02:17,968 --> 01:02:21,838
...so I asked Ranger White
to please go to the patrol car...
1043
01:02:22,005 --> 01:02:25,108
...get my uniform jacket
and bring it down, which he did.
1044
01:02:25,275 --> 01:02:27,143
And while we were
putting the jacket onto her...
1045
01:02:27,310 --> 01:02:33,817
...I could see multiple areas on her clothing,
front and back...
1046
01:02:33,984 --> 01:02:35,185
...where she had been stabbed.
1047
01:02:35,352 --> 01:02:37,020
The blood was showing through
the clothing.
1048
01:02:37,187 --> 01:02:40,156
She said, "Bryan and I
were here on the blanket...
1049
01:02:40,323 --> 01:02:43,660
...were down by the water,
and we're just enjoying the afternoon...
1050
01:02:43,827 --> 01:02:47,330
...we're having a nice time talking,
and I saw this guy, he's--
1051
01:02:47,497 --> 01:02:51,201
He was coming down the hillside
and he seemed to stop and watch us.
1052
01:02:51,368 --> 01:02:53,069
He's looking-- Looking at us."
1053
01:02:53,236 --> 01:02:55,538
And I said, "Well, what distance,
how far away was he?"
1054
01:02:55,705 --> 01:03:00,110
And she pointed to an area, and I said:
1055
01:03:00,277 --> 01:03:04,381
"That's about--
Looks like 200 to 300 yards away."
1056
01:03:04,547 --> 01:03:06,483
She said, "That's where I first saw him.
1057
01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:10,020
And then, as we continued
enjoying the afternoon...
1058
01:03:10,186 --> 01:03:13,156
...and watching the water and reading...
1059
01:03:13,323 --> 01:03:16,026
...I would glance and I'd notice
he'd get closer and he was closer...
1060
01:03:16,192 --> 01:03:21,364
...and then pretty soon
he was within 75 to 100 feet away.
1061
01:03:21,531 --> 01:03:24,868
And I told Brian, I said,
'That guy has come down here.'"
1062
01:03:25,035 --> 01:03:30,040
And then she looked again
and she said, "He was gone."
1063
01:03:30,206 --> 01:03:31,808
And I said, "Well, where did he go?"
1064
01:03:31,975 --> 01:03:34,811
She said, "He stepped behind a tree.
And when he s--"
1065
01:03:34,978 --> 01:03:37,614
And the tree was 50 to 75 feet away.
1066
01:03:37,781 --> 01:03:43,553
"And when he stepped out
he was pulling a hood over his head."
1067
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:46,356
And I said, "A hood?" She said, "Yes."
1068
01:03:46,523 --> 01:03:51,795
And that was the first that we had known
that we had something more...
1069
01:03:51,961 --> 01:03:54,964
...than the usual crime
that had been committed.
1070
01:03:55,598 --> 01:03:58,735
One thing that's baffling is,
if you're gonna kill somebody...
1071
01:03:58,902 --> 01:04:00,236
...you normally don't wear a mask.
1072
01:04:00,403 --> 01:04:02,706
You got it in your own mind
you're gonna kill them...
1073
01:04:02,872 --> 01:04:05,041
...so why do you have to hide
your identity?
1074
01:04:05,208 --> 01:04:08,745
So that's always been
a puzzling matter in this case.
1075
01:04:08,912 --> 01:04:12,882
Why did the Zodiac
go through such a effort...
1076
01:04:13,049 --> 01:04:17,654
...to make this mask to horrify people
if he knew he was gonna kill them?
1077
01:04:18,755 --> 01:04:21,791
And I asked her if she saw him clearly
before he put the hood on...
1078
01:04:21,958 --> 01:04:23,626
...and she said, "Yes, I did."
1079
01:04:23,793 --> 01:04:25,862
And I said, "Well, what did he look like?"
1080
01:04:26,029 --> 01:04:27,464
And she said, "Well, he had--"
1081
01:04:27,630 --> 01:04:28,998
I said, "What color was his hair?"
1082
01:04:29,165 --> 01:04:30,734
She said, "Well, it was brown."
1083
01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:34,938
"And what race was he?"
"He was white."
1084
01:04:35,105 --> 01:04:36,639
And I said, "Well, how about his eyes.
1085
01:04:36,806 --> 01:04:39,209
Could you see--?
Could you see the color of his eyes?"
1086
01:04:39,376 --> 01:04:44,114
And she said, "No, he had dark glasses on
underneath the hood."
1087
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:49,919
But she said his hair hung down
across his forehead...
1088
01:04:50,086 --> 01:04:53,223
...and was showing
through the eyeholes.
1089
01:04:53,390 --> 01:04:54,524
I said, "Well, how tall?
1090
01:04:54,691 --> 01:04:57,861
Let me stand where he was
when he came up to you...
1091
01:04:58,027 --> 01:05:01,364
...and look at me, I'm 5-foot-10...
1092
01:05:01,531 --> 01:05:05,034
...tell me how he matches my height."
1093
01:05:05,201 --> 01:05:06,703
Because she was laying on the ground.
1094
01:05:06,870 --> 01:05:09,139
She said, "Well, he's just
a little bit taller than you.
1095
01:05:09,305 --> 01:05:11,741
Probably an inch or two taller than you."
1096
01:05:11,908 --> 01:05:13,977
I said, "Okay, how much did he weigh?"
1097
01:05:14,644 --> 01:05:19,749
She said, "He was overweight.
He was bulky-looking.
1098
01:05:19,916 --> 01:05:24,020
His clothing was all dark:
dark pants, dark shirt, dark jacket.
1099
01:05:24,187 --> 01:05:25,655
And the jacket was bulky."
1100
01:05:25,822 --> 01:05:30,093
And I said, "Well, I'm 170,
look at me and judge by my weight...
1101
01:05:30,260 --> 01:05:31,494
...and see if you can tell."
1102
01:05:31,661 --> 01:05:35,865
She said, "Well, he'd have to be
at least 20 or 30 pounds heavier."
1103
01:05:36,032 --> 01:05:40,370
The information
that I'm relaying to you now...
1104
01:05:40,537 --> 01:05:45,442
...is information that I got
directly from Cecilia Shepard.
1105
01:05:45,975 --> 01:05:49,512
It is accurate for what she told me...
1106
01:05:49,679 --> 01:05:55,752
...because I kept notes and I immediately
did a report the following morning...
1107
01:05:55,919 --> 01:05:58,621
...so that nothing would be lost.
1108
01:05:58,788 --> 01:06:03,893
And if things have changed
in the course of the investigation...
1109
01:06:04,060 --> 01:06:08,231
...I can't comment on it, because
I can only report what she told me...
1110
01:06:08,398 --> 01:06:11,067
...and that is what I've just relayed.
1111
01:06:11,234 --> 01:06:13,069
Why doesn't anybody know
that she saw his face?
1112
01:06:13,236 --> 01:06:15,371
Why is that unknown?
1113
01:06:15,538 --> 01:06:17,407
I didn't report it.
1114
01:06:17,574 --> 01:06:19,676
Why didn't you report it?
1115
01:06:19,843 --> 01:06:23,746
You know, at the time
I didn't think it was important.
1116
01:06:24,314 --> 01:06:26,916
It wasn't until Monday
around noon, I believe...
1117
01:06:27,083 --> 01:06:30,520
...that I was notified that Cecilia Shepard
had died of her wounds.
1118
01:06:30,687 --> 01:06:34,858
And then, of course, it was no longer
a felonious assault, it became a homicide.
1119
01:06:35,024 --> 01:06:37,694
This whole thing took place
in about a 20-minute time period.
1120
01:06:37,861 --> 01:06:40,830
From the time I arrived
until the ambulance arrived...
1121
01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:42,265
...it's about 20 minutes.
1122
01:06:42,432 --> 01:06:46,736
And this is the time
that I get all this information.
1123
01:06:46,903 --> 01:06:49,305
So your assignment
was to go the hospital?
1124
01:06:49,472 --> 01:06:55,044
Go to the hospital and try to get statements
from the victims.
1125
01:06:55,211 --> 01:07:00,617
I talked to the doctor
and he told me there's no way...
1126
01:07:00,783 --> 01:07:06,689
...that I could talk to the female victim,
Cecilia Shepard.
1127
01:07:06,856 --> 01:07:09,492
They brought the two victims in
on gurneys...
1128
01:07:09,659 --> 01:07:14,797
...and tried to interview them
to get some idea of what had taken place...
1129
01:07:14,964 --> 01:07:16,633
...but the girl was already in a coma.
1130
01:07:16,799 --> 01:07:20,537
We were unable to talk to Cecilia Shepard,
the female victim.
1131
01:07:20,703 --> 01:07:24,307
But Bryan Hartnell
was in quite a bit of agony...
1132
01:07:24,474 --> 01:07:29,445
...and he was answering questions
in short bursts, so to speak.
1133
01:07:29,612 --> 01:07:31,748
And then the doctor finally said:
1134
01:07:31,915 --> 01:07:36,452
"We have to take him into Emergency,
so you'll have to conclude this interview."
1135
01:07:38,488 --> 01:07:42,926
Well, we went up there that night
to process the crime scene.
1136
01:07:43,593 --> 01:07:46,095
It was about midnight
when we got up there.
1137
01:07:46,262 --> 01:07:51,000
We had several deputies on the scene,
I interviewed the officers that were there.
1138
01:07:51,167 --> 01:07:53,303
One was a park ranger
by the name of Dennis Land...
1139
01:07:53,469 --> 01:07:56,806
...and the other one was a park ranger
by the name of William White.
1140
01:07:56,973 --> 01:07:58,741
Bill White, sergeant.
1141
01:07:58,908 --> 01:08:03,046
And at that time Bill White
turned over to me...
1142
01:08:03,212 --> 01:08:08,384
...some of the articles that were found
at the crime scene.
1143
01:08:08,551 --> 01:08:10,353
Didn't really make me too happy
at the time...
1144
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:12,422
...because I couldn't actually go
to the scene...
1145
01:08:12,589 --> 01:08:16,893
...because someone,
thinking they were doing the good thing...
1146
01:08:17,060 --> 01:08:19,195
...and the right thing by protecting it...
1147
01:08:19,362 --> 01:08:23,132
...actually bundled up the blanket
and the clothing and stuff that was there...
1148
01:08:23,299 --> 01:08:28,738
...and took it into his custody
at Berryessa Lake Park headquarters.
1149
01:08:28,905 --> 01:08:30,907
He thought at the time
he was doing a good thing...
1150
01:08:31,074 --> 01:08:33,676
...but at the same time
it took us away from the opportunity...
1151
01:08:33,843 --> 01:08:36,512
...to actually view the crime scene.
1152
01:08:36,679 --> 01:08:40,850
So put it in a few simple words,
there wasn't really a crime scene to view.
1153
01:08:41,017 --> 01:08:46,389
After the ambulance took the victims
to the hospital in Napa...
1154
01:08:46,556 --> 01:08:51,194
...and while waiting for detectives
from the sheriff's department to arrive...
1155
01:08:51,361 --> 01:08:55,331
...Deputy Land talked to the witnesses
that were there...
1156
01:08:55,498 --> 01:08:57,900
...and obtained statements from them.
1157
01:08:58,067 --> 01:09:02,705
I began a search for evidence
and discovered a footprint...
1158
01:09:02,872 --> 01:09:08,945
...that led from Berryessa-Knoxville Road
to the victims and back again...
1159
01:09:09,112 --> 01:09:13,883
...which was totally separate
from the shoes that they were wearing.
1160
01:09:14,050 --> 01:09:18,488
Later on, we were able to determine
that it was a military-type shoe...
1161
01:09:18,655 --> 01:09:21,224
...and we were able
to come up with an identical shoe...
1162
01:09:21,391 --> 01:09:24,527
...an identical footprint in the same size.
1163
01:09:24,694 --> 01:09:27,897
And it was determined to be what
was referred to as a wing walker shoe...
1164
01:09:28,064 --> 01:09:31,501
...that was used primarily with the
Navy and the Air Force in maintenance...
1165
01:09:31,668 --> 01:09:34,537
...due to the static-free sole
on the shoe...
1166
01:09:34,704 --> 01:09:37,507
...so the maintenance people
could walk around the wings of aircraft...
1167
01:09:37,674 --> 01:09:40,143
...without creating static electricity.
1168
01:09:40,309 --> 01:09:43,112
So we thought that was
a very crucial piece of evidence.
1169
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:48,084
When I went to the roadway
I saw the white Karmann Ghia...
1170
01:09:48,785 --> 01:09:52,822
...and I saw tracks
leading away from it...
1171
01:09:52,989 --> 01:09:59,495
...which we felt may have been tire tracks
from the Zodiac's vehicle.
1172
01:09:59,929 --> 01:10:03,366
The two front tires were different,
which is unusual.
1173
01:10:03,533 --> 01:10:06,369
Most people buy a set of tires,
or at least in pairs...
1174
01:10:06,536 --> 01:10:09,338
...but here we had two tires
that were distinctively different...
1175
01:10:09,505 --> 01:10:11,007
...on the front of this vehicle.
1176
01:10:11,174 --> 01:10:14,143
Which kind of led us to believe
it was an older model car...
1177
01:10:14,310 --> 01:10:18,414
...by someone that probably couldn't afford
to keep up the maintenance on the vehicle.
1178
01:10:18,581 --> 01:10:21,984
I looked at the Karmann Ghia,
and on the passenger door...
1179
01:10:22,151 --> 01:10:27,023
...the circle with the vertical
and horizontal line running through it...
1180
01:10:27,190 --> 01:10:29,025
...was displayed on the door...
1181
01:10:29,192 --> 01:10:32,695
...and there were several dates
and then it ended with:
1182
01:10:32,862 --> 01:10:39,202
"September 27th, 1969,
6:30 p.m., by knife."
1183
01:10:39,368 --> 01:10:42,371
Which was our crime.
1184
01:10:42,538 --> 01:10:46,242
And so he had left his calling card,
is what he had done.
1185
01:10:47,977 --> 01:10:50,413
I recognized the symbol on the door...
1186
01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:53,316
...as being the same symbol
she had described on the hood.
1187
01:10:57,887 --> 01:10:59,856
How's it going, Ken?
1188
01:11:00,556 --> 01:11:03,226
Age before beauty, huh?
1189
01:11:04,327 --> 01:11:07,063
First time I've seen it in 38 years.
1190
01:11:08,765 --> 01:11:11,467
Critical piece of evidence.
1191
01:11:13,870 --> 01:11:15,738
-Don't-- Don't-- Don't open it up.
-Don't touch.
1192
01:11:15,905 --> 01:11:17,406
-Don't touch it.
-I'm not touching it.
1193
01:11:17,573 --> 01:11:20,243
You know, that's before the days of the--
Of the--
1194
01:11:20,409 --> 01:11:22,812
What do you call
the ones now that we have?
1195
01:11:22,979 --> 01:11:25,615
You know what I'm talking about,
the little indelible markers.
1196
01:11:25,782 --> 01:11:28,217
-Sharpie.
-Sharpie. Yeah, that's pre-Sharpie days.
1197
01:11:28,384 --> 01:11:32,421
This must be permanent.
Is this permanent marker or is it...?
1198
01:11:33,289 --> 01:11:34,924
It's pretty thin point.
1199
01:11:35,324 --> 01:11:39,896
You can see a little OCD, though, with
the circles being filled in on the time.
1200
01:11:40,062 --> 01:11:43,432
-Yeah.
-If you're in a hurry you wouldn't do that.
1201
01:11:43,699 --> 01:11:45,434
-It's true.
-Like I wouldn't put a dot on J.
1202
01:11:46,803 --> 01:11:48,971
I mean, L-E-J-O.
You know, I wouldn't come back.
1203
01:11:49,138 --> 01:11:53,609
But then to go and take the time
to put it on the time is a little--
1204
01:11:53,776 --> 01:11:55,311
He was into time.
1205
01:11:55,478 --> 01:11:59,715
You know, he's continually telling us
how far something is...
1206
01:11:59,882 --> 01:12:04,086
...how long it's been. He's very specific.
1207
01:12:04,253 --> 01:12:06,722
Except this right here is the only thing...
1208
01:12:06,889 --> 01:12:12,562
...that really nails down, you know, with
some degree of authenticity, we think...
1209
01:12:12,728 --> 01:12:15,131
...the connection between the pieces.
1210
01:12:15,298 --> 01:12:16,699
I agree with you.
1211
01:12:16,866 --> 01:12:21,838
Because there's-- There's, what?
Is there 30 or so that people think...?
1212
01:12:22,004 --> 01:12:24,707
And, you know,
there's just no connection.
1213
01:12:24,874 --> 01:12:27,877
You've basically got
these four plus Stine.
1214
01:12:28,044 --> 01:12:30,146
That's right.
1215
01:12:32,081 --> 01:12:33,182
Then it stopped.
1216
01:12:33,816 --> 01:12:35,351
Which was kind of cool, actually.
1217
01:12:35,518 --> 01:12:39,856
I was no fan of reading the paper
for another one.
1218
01:12:42,658 --> 01:12:47,563
And that's one of the questions always is,
"Why did he stop?"
1219
01:12:47,563 --> 01:12:47,630
And that's one of the questions always is,
"Why did he stop?"
1220
01:12:49,498 --> 01:12:52,001
This has always been known
as a city of mystery...
1221
01:12:52,168 --> 01:12:55,404
...and it seems now to have
a new and real one on its hands.
1222
01:12:55,571 --> 01:13:00,543
Five murders and somebody who says
he committed all and will commit yet more.
1223
01:13:00,710 --> 01:13:05,181
The search goes on in San Francisco
for the man known as the Zodiac Killer.
1224
01:13:05,348 --> 01:13:06,449
The elements involved tod--
1225
01:13:06,616 --> 01:13:11,554
Zodiac, a symbol that now stands
for terror in San Francisco.
1226
01:13:11,721 --> 01:13:13,990
Today there was
a possibly significant development...
1227
01:13:14,156 --> 01:13:17,894
...in the terrifying case of the man
who calls himself Zodiac.
1228
01:13:18,361 --> 01:13:21,530
The psychotic killer
has already murdered five.
1229
01:13:21,697 --> 01:13:25,534
One at a lovers' lane
near a lake just north of San Francisco...
1230
01:13:25,701 --> 01:13:27,436
...three others in nearby Vallejo.
1231
01:13:27,603 --> 01:13:30,206
The latest, a taxi driver in San Francisco.
1232
01:14:21,524 --> 01:14:25,528
I was the first officer
that responded on the scene.
1233
01:14:25,695 --> 01:14:27,763
I was working with an officer
who's since deceased...
1234
01:14:31,233 --> 01:14:33,602
...Frank Peta, an excellent police officer.
1235
01:14:33,769 --> 01:14:36,739
And we responded to a radio call...
1236
01:14:36,906 --> 01:14:43,412
...told us that a cab driver was being
robbed and/or possibly assaulted...
1237
01:14:43,980 --> 01:14:49,885
...at the corner of Cherry
and Washington Streets in Pacific Heights.
1238
01:14:54,123 --> 01:14:58,995
We, fortunately, were very close
and responded to that corner...
1239
01:14:59,161 --> 01:15:03,866
...and were able to do so red light and siren
at 9:55 at night...
1240
01:15:04,033 --> 01:15:06,102
...and got there very quickly.
1241
01:15:06,268 --> 01:15:09,305
I parked the car
in the middle of the intersection...
1242
01:15:09,472 --> 01:15:15,978
...facing a yellow cab that was sitting
a little bit back from the corner...
1243
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,882
...of Cherry Street on Washington...
1244
01:15:20,049 --> 01:15:23,486
...facing west on Washington.
1245
01:15:24,487 --> 01:15:27,289
There were three children
that were heading over to that car...
1246
01:15:27,456 --> 01:15:33,329
...they weren't too far away,
but I'd say a good 15 or 16 feet away.
1247
01:15:33,496 --> 01:15:37,733
I made the assumption they were
coming from the home on the corner...
1248
01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:44,407
...and I was correct and I herded them
immediately back to that alcove.
1249
01:15:44,607 --> 01:15:47,910
I didn't know if the suspect
was still there.
1250
01:15:48,077 --> 01:15:52,014
The description that came out
over the air was of an NMA...
1251
01:15:52,181 --> 01:15:55,584
...Negro male adult, at the time.
1252
01:15:56,619 --> 01:16:01,424
The only person that could've
given that information...
1253
01:16:01,590 --> 01:16:07,296
...would've been the child
who called it into police dispatch.
1254
01:16:07,463 --> 01:16:11,333
Whether somebody wrote it incorrectly...
1255
01:16:11,500 --> 01:16:16,005
...and the child actually said a white guy,
I don't know.
1256
01:16:16,739 --> 01:16:18,774
My regular partner was off...
1257
01:16:21,343 --> 01:16:24,914
...I don't recall the reason why
he was not working that night.
1258
01:16:25,081 --> 01:16:30,920
However, Eric Zelms was assigned
as my partner that night.
1259
01:16:31,087 --> 01:16:35,724
We were patrolling the eastern side...
1260
01:16:35,891 --> 01:16:38,094
...of the Richmond District...
1261
01:16:38,527 --> 01:16:43,699
...going northbound on Presidio Avenue.
1262
01:16:43,866 --> 01:16:49,405
We had passed Washington Street
when a broadcast came in...
1263
01:16:49,572 --> 01:16:54,510
...of a shooting
at Cherry and Washington Street.
1264
01:16:54,677 --> 01:16:58,214
Went over to the cab,
I could see Mr. Paul Stine...
1265
01:16:58,380 --> 01:17:00,449
...who was slumped over the front seat...
1266
01:17:00,616 --> 01:17:05,788
...with his head into the well
on the passenger side in the front.
1267
01:17:05,955 --> 01:17:11,927
There was blood all over the cab, on him,
and I was 99.9 certain he was dead.
1268
01:17:12,561 --> 01:17:15,264
And it was at that point...
1269
01:17:15,431 --> 01:17:20,536
...that I retook the description
of the suspect.
1270
01:17:20,703 --> 01:17:23,305
And that's when I was told
it was a white male.
1271
01:17:23,472 --> 01:17:26,008
I couldn't get to the radio fast enough
at that point...
1272
01:17:26,175 --> 01:17:28,844
...to let everybody else know.
1273
01:17:32,381 --> 01:17:37,686
The kids had told me that whoever
had done this crime left the cab...
1274
01:17:37,853 --> 01:17:41,157
...went out the door,
seemed to be wiping the cab down...
1275
01:17:41,323 --> 01:17:47,463
...reaching into the cab and then ambling
or walking down Cherry Street...
1276
01:17:47,630 --> 01:17:51,834
...in a northerly direction
kind of towards the Presidio.
1277
01:17:52,001 --> 01:17:53,903
I walked that way myself...
1278
01:17:54,069 --> 01:17:59,208
...I did not run, because there are
innumerable alcoves and parked cars.
1279
01:17:59,375 --> 01:18:02,645
So I went down,
following every technique I knew...
1280
01:18:02,811 --> 01:18:04,647
...so I didn't get my head blown off.
1281
01:18:04,813 --> 01:18:10,152
Got down to the corner of Jackson Street,
had to make a choice.
1282
01:18:10,319 --> 01:18:13,789
I was on the east side of the street,
so I turned right to the east...
1283
01:18:13,956 --> 01:18:15,124
...went up in that direction.
1284
01:18:15,291 --> 01:18:17,826
I couldn't see anybody
in either direction...
1285
01:18:17,993 --> 01:18:22,064
...nor could I see anybody
scaling a wall into the Presidio.
1286
01:18:22,231 --> 01:18:26,669
Got all the way down to the next corner,
which was Maple...
1287
01:18:26,835 --> 01:18:28,537
...decision number two,
which way to go.
1288
01:18:28,704 --> 01:18:32,675
Looked to the left toward the Presidio,
saw absolutely nothing.
1289
01:18:32,841 --> 01:18:34,643
It was much darker there...
1290
01:18:34,810 --> 01:18:38,547
...I figured the chance of finding somebody
was almost nil.
1291
01:18:38,714 --> 01:18:44,253
I turned to the right
and I saw a man walking his dog.
1292
01:18:44,420 --> 01:18:48,190
He was somewhat older
than the description I had...
1293
01:18:48,357 --> 01:18:53,762
...a whole lot thinner and he had
absolutely no blood on his clothes.
1294
01:18:53,929 --> 01:18:58,934
I asked that gentleman if he saw anybody
walking in the area and he told me no.
1295
01:18:59,101 --> 01:19:03,072
We turned west on Jackson Street.
1296
01:19:04,139 --> 01:19:06,875
As we approached Maple Street...
1297
01:19:07,042 --> 01:19:11,146
...I noticed on the north side of the street...
1298
01:19:11,614 --> 01:19:16,452
...a white male adult
dressed in a Derby...
1299
01:19:16,619 --> 01:19:20,322
...or three-quarter, waist-length jacket...
1300
01:19:20,489 --> 01:19:24,893
...with elastic at the waist
and on the cuffs...
1301
01:19:25,060 --> 01:19:28,897
...and regular flapped-down collars.
1302
01:19:29,064 --> 01:19:31,100
He had a crew cut...
1303
01:19:31,267 --> 01:19:35,571
...he was wearing rust-colored,
pleated trousers...
1304
01:19:35,738 --> 01:19:39,541
...which were unusual for the time.
1305
01:19:39,708 --> 01:19:46,181
He had on engineering-type boots,
low-cut shoe...
1306
01:19:46,348 --> 01:19:51,287
...three-quarters of the way in length,
tan in color.
1307
01:19:51,453 --> 01:19:54,957
The initial radio description
of the suspect...
1308
01:19:55,124 --> 01:20:01,630
...was that of a black male, 5'10",
or something like that.
1309
01:20:02,131 --> 01:20:06,902
Seeing that it was a white male
in an affluent neighborhood...
1310
01:20:07,069 --> 01:20:11,006
...walking along the street,
we didn't think it was a suspect.
1311
01:20:11,173 --> 01:20:15,044
So we proceeded the next block at--
1312
01:20:15,210 --> 01:20:21,717
Which was Jackson and Cherry,
turned southbound on Cherry Street...
1313
01:20:21,884 --> 01:20:27,923
...saw Armond Pelissetti, one of the officers
who had responded directly to the scene.
1314
01:20:28,090 --> 01:20:30,793
And at that point, Office Don Fouke...
1315
01:20:30,959 --> 01:20:33,662
...who was accompanied by what I believe
was a rookie officer...
1316
01:20:33,829 --> 01:20:37,466
...Eric Zelms, at the time...
1317
01:20:37,633 --> 01:20:43,172
...pulled up very quickly in their police car,
called out to me...
1318
01:20:43,739 --> 01:20:48,477
Did I see anybody? Did I know anything
about where the suspect could be?
1319
01:20:48,644 --> 01:20:49,845
I told them no.
1320
01:20:50,813 --> 01:20:55,084
He stopped us and said
that he was looking for the white male...
1321
01:20:55,250 --> 01:20:58,287
...that had just gone down the street.
1322
01:20:58,454 --> 01:21:03,425
There was a little conversation
about what the initial description was...
1323
01:21:03,592 --> 01:21:07,896
...and he said,
"No, he was a white male."
1324
01:21:08,063 --> 01:21:14,370
I then used a slang term...
1325
01:21:14,536 --> 01:21:19,508
...and said, "Oh, that was the suspect."
1326
01:21:21,377 --> 01:21:25,948
He did not mention to me
that he had seen anybody at that point...
1327
01:21:26,115 --> 01:21:27,883
...or had stopped anybody.
1328
01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:33,288
We turned around to get to the Presidio
and our reasoning on th--
1329
01:21:33,455 --> 01:21:37,860
My reasoning on that
was because turning down Maple...
1330
01:21:38,026 --> 01:21:44,533
...would lead through the Presidio wall
directly into Julius Kahn playground...
1331
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:50,305
...which had a lot of foliage.
1332
01:21:50,939 --> 01:21:57,246
So we turned, went down looking
for the alleged suspect...
1333
01:21:57,413 --> 01:22:02,751
...in the area of Julius Kahn playground.
1334
01:22:02,918 --> 01:22:05,154
Nothing was observed.
1335
01:22:30,078 --> 01:22:31,680
I got back to the scene...
1336
01:22:31,847 --> 01:22:38,253
...and it was some time shortly thereafter
that the ambulance crew...
1337
01:22:38,420 --> 01:22:41,423
...the coroner, a fire truck...
1338
01:22:41,590 --> 01:22:46,094
...Inspector Walt Krake
of the Homicide detail...
1339
01:22:46,261 --> 01:22:49,331
...and then about three or four minutes,
five minutes thereafter...
1340
01:22:49,498 --> 01:22:56,004
...Inspector Dave Toschi and Bill Armstrong,
two of the best, arrived at the scene.
1341
01:22:56,405 --> 01:23:02,277
I briefed Inspector Toschi, who seemed
to be taking the lead on the investigation.
1342
01:23:02,444 --> 01:23:05,214
As we walked over to the car...
1343
01:23:05,380 --> 01:23:08,584
...I assured him nobody
had contaminated the scene...
1344
01:23:08,750 --> 01:23:14,656
...and then I went about uniform business
and let him take care of his detective work.
1345
01:23:14,823 --> 01:23:19,962
In his violent movements, or rather,
the violent periods that he has been in...
1346
01:23:22,998 --> 01:23:27,135
...he's an absolutely ruthless,
completely merciless killer.
1347
01:23:27,302 --> 01:23:31,807
He calmly goes about his business of,
in one case, telephoning the police...
1348
01:23:31,974 --> 01:23:34,943
...in another tearing a strip off the shirt...
1349
01:23:35,110 --> 01:23:40,215
...of the dead body
of the immediately killed victim.
1350
01:23:41,183 --> 01:23:45,487
He doesn't get great excitement over it,
he just--
1351
01:23:45,654 --> 01:23:47,789
He thinks killing is just killing.
1352
01:23:47,956 --> 01:23:52,160
So somebody like that is gonna be
a very serious problem for us.
1353
01:23:52,327 --> 01:23:56,431
Can you guess how fast you were driving
down the street when you saw him?
1354
01:23:57,032 --> 01:24:01,970
Well, until I saw him,
probably about 35 or 40 miles an hour...
1355
01:24:02,137 --> 01:24:05,841
...on a 25-mile-an-hour street.
1356
01:24:06,008 --> 01:24:11,346
Slowed down as we passed him,
I don't know, we're still rolling.
1357
01:24:11,513 --> 01:24:16,084
Saw that it's a white male,
step on the gas.
1358
01:24:16,251 --> 01:24:19,454
Five, 10, 15 seconds tops...
1359
01:24:19,621 --> 01:24:23,258
...from first spotting him till passing him.
1360
01:24:23,425 --> 01:24:28,564
I spoke to Officer Fouke
later that evening...
1361
01:24:28,730 --> 01:24:32,935
...and was unaware
that he had stopped anybody.
1362
01:24:33,101 --> 01:24:35,704
Black, white or any other color.
1363
01:24:35,871 --> 01:24:39,908
However, in subsequent conversations
with him...
1364
01:24:40,075 --> 01:24:43,245
...he told me that he did stop somebody.
1365
01:24:43,412 --> 01:24:48,250
We never stopped the man,
we never talked to him.
1366
01:24:48,417 --> 01:24:53,221
That is an emphatic statement by me.
1367
01:24:53,388 --> 01:24:56,592
I wouldn't make the denial.
1368
01:24:56,758 --> 01:25:00,996
He told me he saw a man walking by
and that he asked him:
1369
01:25:01,163 --> 01:25:04,633
"Did you see anybody go by?"
1370
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:06,201
The person said no.
1371
01:25:06,368 --> 01:25:07,703
One month later...
1372
01:25:07,869 --> 01:25:13,375
...when the composite
drawing came out at Richmond Station...
1373
01:25:14,009 --> 01:25:15,677
...and was posted on the wall...
1374
01:25:15,844 --> 01:25:22,250
...he looked similar to the man
that I had seen on October 11th.
1375
01:25:22,417 --> 01:25:28,857
I then wrote a scratch,
or interdepartmental memorandum...
1376
01:25:29,024 --> 01:25:33,862
...to my lieutenant
to forward to Homicide Division...
1377
01:25:34,029 --> 01:25:37,599
...so that they would have
the additional information...
1378
01:25:37,766 --> 01:25:40,869
...about the appearance of the suspect.
1379
01:25:41,036 --> 01:25:44,539
I believe that Fouke
would've been honest...
1380
01:25:44,706 --> 01:25:50,312
...but that scratch
and what he told me do not coincide.
1381
01:25:50,879 --> 01:25:54,216
It seemed Officer Fouke,
in that amount of time...
1382
01:25:54,383 --> 01:25:56,952
...felt that he had stopped the Zodiac.
1383
01:25:57,119 --> 01:26:02,190
We did not stop the Zodiac.
We didn't stop anyone.
1384
01:26:02,357 --> 01:26:07,796
I wish Eric Zelms were alive today
to tell you so.
1385
01:26:08,797 --> 01:26:11,733
Well, it's very hard to say
whether he did or not.
1386
01:26:11,900 --> 01:26:17,906
It would be a point of conjecture at this
point and he seemed quite upset.
1387
01:26:18,073 --> 01:26:24,379
It is purported in the works
of Zodiac Unmasked...
1388
01:26:24,546 --> 01:26:30,786
...that I tearfully told inspector Toschi:
1389
01:26:30,952 --> 01:26:35,524
"You know, Dave,
we could've been killed that night."
1390
01:26:35,691 --> 01:26:41,963
I never spoke to Toschi
that I personally know of or remember.
1391
01:26:42,130 --> 01:26:45,600
He may have been the inspector
who came out...
1392
01:26:45,767 --> 01:26:52,007
...and asked me
about the composite drawing...
1393
01:26:52,174 --> 01:26:57,412
...and I told him the suspect
was older and heavier.
1394
01:26:57,579 --> 01:26:59,381
Beyond that...
1395
01:26:59,548 --> 01:27:05,854
...I had no further contact
with the investigation.
1396
01:27:06,021 --> 01:27:09,691
Fouke was also very clear
as to what the person was wearing.
1397
01:27:09,858 --> 01:27:14,463
Well, it just so happens
that area is extremely well-lit...
1398
01:27:14,629 --> 01:27:19,935
...and I cannot imagine his not seeing
the shine of blood on the clothing...
1399
01:27:20,102 --> 01:27:22,370
...if it had been Zodiac.
1400
01:27:22,537 --> 01:27:25,173
I feel bad for him if he believes
that was the Zodiac.
1401
01:27:25,340 --> 01:27:27,375
I don't think it was.
1402
01:27:31,113 --> 01:27:37,052
I would like to say he made eye--
The Zodiac made eye contact with us...
1403
01:27:37,219 --> 01:27:40,122
...but I can't picture it.
1404
01:27:40,288 --> 01:27:44,760
I remember seeing his eyes,
I couldn't tell you what color they were.
1405
01:27:44,926 --> 01:27:50,265
It was dark enough
that his eyes were concealed...
1406
01:27:51,099 --> 01:27:55,003
...but you could say
he sort of looked down.
1407
01:27:55,170 --> 01:28:00,075
Perhaps this lumbering gait...
1408
01:28:02,077 --> 01:28:06,414
...sort of stumbling along
like a semi-limp...
1409
01:28:06,581 --> 01:28:10,786
...might have come up in my mind...
1410
01:28:10,952 --> 01:28:15,624
...because he was putting his head down
when he spotted the police car...
1411
01:28:15,791 --> 01:28:20,195
...and turned into the entranceway
of a house.
1412
01:28:20,362 --> 01:28:26,101
By "entranceway," I mean stairs
leading up that are concrete to a path...
1413
01:28:26,268 --> 01:28:28,503
...that leads to a front door.
1414
01:28:28,670 --> 01:28:32,741
Never saw him
get to the top of the stairs.
1415
01:28:32,908 --> 01:28:36,611
You want the address of that residence?
1416
01:28:36,778 --> 01:28:40,882
**** Jackson Street.
1417
01:28:41,049 --> 01:28:46,955
I never put it in the report
and I don't think that I've told anyone.
1418
01:28:47,122 --> 01:28:49,457
Why didn't you put it in the report?
1419
01:28:49,624 --> 01:28:52,360
I didn't think about it in the report...
1420
01:28:52,527 --> 01:28:56,765
...because I assumed
that he didn't live in the neighborhood...
1421
01:28:56,932 --> 01:29:03,271
...a upper-middle-class neighborhood.
1422
01:29:04,072 --> 01:29:07,342
I don't know if he lived there
or he didn't live there...
1423
01:29:07,509 --> 01:29:12,447
...let the inspectors follow through.
1424
01:29:14,115 --> 01:29:16,651
It didn't seem like an important piece
of information, though...
1425
01:29:16,818 --> 01:29:20,288
...that a possible suspect had walked up
to a house in the neighborhood?
1426
01:29:20,455 --> 01:29:26,228
I thought that's what I wrote
in the scratch, all these years.
1427
01:29:41,643 --> 01:29:44,546
The Zodiac Killer
seems to crave publicity.
1428
01:29:44,713 --> 01:29:48,450
He sent letters and cryptograms
to newspapers and the police...
1429
01:29:48,617 --> 01:29:50,919
...recounting his crimes,
threatening more murders...
1430
01:29:51,086 --> 01:29:54,389
...and making Bay Area residents
very edgy.
1431
01:30:00,262 --> 01:30:03,098
Nobody in San Francisco
was aware of any Zodiac...
1432
01:30:03,265 --> 01:30:07,068
...until the murderer
wrote to the Chronicle...
1433
01:30:07,235 --> 01:30:13,241
...and included that torn piece of shirt
from Mr. Stine.
1434
01:30:18,413 --> 01:30:21,616
"School children make fine targets.
1435
01:30:21,783 --> 01:30:25,220
I think I shall wipe out a school bus
some morning.
1436
01:30:25,387 --> 01:30:29,024
Just shoot out the front tire
and then pick off the kiddies...
1437
01:30:29,190 --> 01:30:32,093
...as they come bouncing out."
1438
01:30:32,260 --> 01:30:34,429
Now, what are you doing
to protect the school buses...
1439
01:30:34,596 --> 01:30:37,766
...particularly in San Francisco, from that?
1440
01:30:37,933 --> 01:30:40,468
In San Francisco we have been,
since the first day...
1441
01:30:40,635 --> 01:30:43,271
...since the reception of this note...
1442
01:30:43,438 --> 01:30:46,007
...and up to now, and continuing--
1443
01:30:46,174 --> 01:30:49,844
We have a number
of plainclothesed officers...
1444
01:30:50,011 --> 01:30:51,780
...following buses in the morning...
1445
01:30:51,947 --> 01:30:53,982
...and in the evening.
1446
01:31:22,744 --> 01:31:26,748
We have specifically requested
that they alert their drivers...
1447
01:31:26,915 --> 01:31:29,651
...to not stop under any conditions...
1448
01:31:29,818 --> 01:31:35,256
...if a shot is fired or if their bus
is subjected to a flat tire by the sniper.
1449
01:31:35,423 --> 01:31:37,759
Further, that they get the children down
immediately...
1450
01:31:37,926 --> 01:31:40,862
...and proceed with all speed
out of the area.
1451
01:31:41,029 --> 01:31:42,564
And...
1452
01:31:42,731 --> 01:31:49,070
To try and attract all the possible attention
by blowing their horns...
1453
01:31:49,237 --> 01:31:51,740
...therefore, get out of the situation.
1454
01:31:53,074 --> 01:31:56,778
There's naturally talk.
Everybody's, I guess...
1455
01:31:56,945 --> 01:31:57,979
...tense about it.
1456
01:31:58,146 --> 01:32:02,317
But they all seem to be in good spirits
and all seem to be going on with the job.
1457
01:32:02,484 --> 01:32:05,320
I don't know of anybody that's quit.
1458
01:32:05,487 --> 01:32:07,055
-You're not afraid?
-No, I'm not.
1459
01:32:07,222 --> 01:32:10,191
No, not too afraid.
1460
01:32:12,794 --> 01:32:14,329
There was a real panic in Benicia.
1461
01:32:14,496 --> 01:32:16,231
Benicia had a 10:00 curfew.
1462
01:32:16,398 --> 01:32:18,233
Well, that was off after that.
1463
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:20,568
"I shall wipe out a school bus
some morning.
1464
01:32:20,735 --> 01:32:23,304
Shoot out the tires
and then pick off the kiddies...
1465
01:32:23,471 --> 01:32:25,206
...as they come bounding out."
1466
01:32:25,373 --> 01:32:27,876
That was the threat of the Zodiac Killer.
1467
01:32:28,043 --> 01:32:32,280
Now every day, police cars follow the buses
which would be likely targets.
1468
01:32:32,447 --> 01:32:35,450
Officers armed with shotguns
take the threat seriously.
1469
01:32:35,617 --> 01:32:40,021
I would say that the paranoia in Benicia
lasted a good six to seven months.
1470
01:32:40,188 --> 01:32:41,289
People were very concerned.
1471
01:32:41,456 --> 01:32:44,826
And it escalated every time
after another reported killing.
1472
01:32:44,993 --> 01:32:49,697
I suppose the Zodiac created himself
as a media darling...
1473
01:32:49,864 --> 01:32:56,371
...because the newspapers started
getting full of Zodiac information.
1474
01:32:56,871 --> 01:32:58,940
Today there was
a possibly significant development...
1475
01:32:59,107 --> 01:33:02,744
...in the terrifying case
of the man who calls himself the Zodiac...
1476
01:33:02,911 --> 01:33:07,115
...and has boasted that he is responsible
for five murders in the last nine months.
1477
01:33:07,282 --> 01:33:09,117
-In--
-What about the cryptogram in the letter?
1478
01:33:09,284 --> 01:33:11,920
Does it tell you anything new about him?
1479
01:33:12,087 --> 01:33:14,255
Well, this is a letter that we've received.
1480
01:33:14,422 --> 01:33:15,957
It's just a short cryptogram...
1481
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:20,962
...one line of symbols
which he says reveals his name.
1482
01:33:21,129 --> 01:33:24,365
In the original correspondence
we received from the Zodiac...
1483
01:33:24,532 --> 01:33:27,035
...he stated that his name was in it.
1484
01:33:27,202 --> 01:33:30,271
The cryptogram in that letter...
1485
01:33:30,438 --> 01:33:34,175
...was broken
except for the last 18 letters.
1486
01:33:34,342 --> 01:33:36,444
And we have been unable to break it.
1487
01:33:36,611 --> 01:33:42,450
We since received another correspondence
from him and that was unable to be broken.
1488
01:33:42,617 --> 01:33:47,956
The experts felt that there really wasn't
a message within that letter.
1489
01:33:48,123 --> 01:33:52,260
Of course, we've already submitted
this recent letter to our experts.
1490
01:33:52,660 --> 01:33:55,663
If his name is there,
I'm sure it will be revealed.
1491
01:33:55,830 --> 01:34:00,268
It conforms with all the other material
we've received from him in the past, yes.
1492
01:34:00,435 --> 01:34:01,736
How can you tell it's authentic?
1493
01:34:03,972 --> 01:34:06,674
It's a matter of identifying
the handprinting appearing...
1494
01:34:06,841 --> 01:34:08,076
...on the card.
1495
01:34:08,243 --> 01:34:10,845
Where was this postcard
postmarked from?
1496
01:34:11,012 --> 01:34:13,915
It has no postmark on it.
It was found in the post office.
1497
01:34:14,082 --> 01:34:15,250
Postal workers found it...
1498
01:34:15,416 --> 01:34:17,852
...before it even got through
the cancellation machine.
1499
01:34:18,019 --> 01:34:19,521
We're just about in the same position.
1500
01:34:19,687 --> 01:34:21,956
We're still following a
tremendous amount of leads.
1501
01:34:22,123 --> 01:34:24,125
We're getting a tremendous amount
of information...
1502
01:34:24,292 --> 01:34:27,762
...not only from the Bay Area
but from all over the nation.
1503
01:34:27,929 --> 01:34:30,865
As you know,
we have heard from him ourselves...
1504
01:34:31,032 --> 01:34:32,200
...through our local press...
1505
01:34:32,367 --> 01:34:35,537
...and recently he has written
to an attorney here in San Francisco...
1506
01:34:35,703 --> 01:34:40,375
...but as far as any specific piece
of physical evidence...
1507
01:34:40,542 --> 01:34:44,078
...or any specific individual,
we're no closer than we were.
1508
01:34:46,681 --> 01:34:48,783
I was asked to listen
to a tape of an interview...
1509
01:34:48,950 --> 01:34:51,186
...that had been on
the Jim Dunbar show.
1510
01:34:51,352 --> 01:34:53,855
And if I recall correctly...
1511
01:34:54,022 --> 01:34:55,857
...Melvin Belli was asked
to come to the Jim Dunbar show.
1512
01:34:57,592 --> 01:34:59,227
And so I was asked
to listen to the voice...
1513
01:34:59,394 --> 01:35:05,033
...and there was some interaction
between Melvin Belli and Jim Dunbar.
1514
01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:08,736
My recollection of that voice
is it wasn't-- That wasn't...
1515
01:35:08,903 --> 01:35:12,040
...even in the range of what I had heard.
1516
01:35:12,207 --> 01:35:14,475
I think I told him
that I didn't think that was the voice.
1517
01:35:15,810 --> 01:35:19,247
-Talk to us.
-Tell us what's going on inside you, Sam.
1518
01:35:19,414 --> 01:35:22,283
-Please.
-I have headaches.
1519
01:35:22,450 --> 01:35:26,287
-Right.
-How long have you had headaches, Sam?
1520
01:35:26,821 --> 01:35:28,523
I mean, a long time?
1521
01:35:28,690 --> 01:35:30,491
Since I killed a kid.
1522
01:35:30,658 --> 01:35:35,630
Well, was it before December
that you had the headaches?
1523
01:35:35,797 --> 01:35:36,931
Yes.
1524
01:35:37,098 --> 01:35:40,435
Were you in service that you might have
had an injury in service...
1525
01:35:40,602 --> 01:35:43,004
...or did you ever fall out of a tree
or down stairs?
1526
01:35:43,171 --> 01:35:45,573
Were you ever unconscious?
1527
01:35:45,740 --> 01:35:47,442
-I don't know.
-You don't remember.
1528
01:35:48,076 --> 01:35:49,911
Does aspirin do you any good?
1529
01:35:50,078 --> 01:35:51,879
-No.
-Doesn't do any good.
1530
01:35:52,046 --> 01:35:54,816
-Sam--
-That stuff never did me any good either.
1531
01:35:54,983 --> 01:35:57,485
Sam, let me ask you a question.
Did you--?
1532
01:35:57,652 --> 01:36:01,956
Did you attempt to call this program
one other time when Mr. Belli was with us?
1533
01:36:02,690 --> 01:36:03,958
-When you're calling--?
-What?
1534
01:36:04,125 --> 01:36:07,528
Did you try to call us one other time
about two or three weeks ago...
1535
01:36:07,695 --> 01:36:10,098
...when Mel Belli was with us?
1536
01:36:10,265 --> 01:36:12,066
-Yes.
-And you-- Well, then--
1537
01:36:12,233 --> 01:36:15,069
-You couldn't get through--?
-Couldn't get through. Phones were tied up.
1538
01:36:15,236 --> 01:36:16,571
-Was that it?
-Yes.
1539
01:36:16,738 --> 01:36:18,339
-Likely.
-Sam, let me ask you this.
1540
01:36:18,973 --> 01:36:21,542
There's some reason
why you go to a particular doctor...
1541
01:36:21,709 --> 01:36:23,278
...or a particular priest.
1542
01:36:23,444 --> 01:36:28,850
There's some reason why, apparently,
you wanted to talk to me or Lee.
1543
01:36:29,017 --> 01:36:33,288
Is it that you feel that we have compassion
for people who get in trouble?
1544
01:36:33,454 --> 01:36:36,658
Or is it you feel
that we can do something for you?
1545
01:36:36,824 --> 01:36:40,695
Or is it you feel
that we have enough integrity...
1546
01:36:40,862 --> 01:36:43,965
...that if we promise you something,
that we're going to stick to it?
1547
01:36:44,132 --> 01:36:46,067
Well, let's find out
why he wanted to talk to--
1548
01:36:46,234 --> 01:36:49,070
Why did you wanna talk to Mr. Belli,
Sam?
1549
01:36:50,238 --> 01:36:52,006
I don't want to be hurt.
1550
01:36:52,173 --> 01:36:55,243
It clearly was not the cadence.
1551
01:36:55,410 --> 01:36:57,679
But it didn't seem like the voice as well.
1552
01:36:57,845 --> 01:37:01,916
I think a man that's sick,
I think a man that's going into a storm...
1553
01:37:02,083 --> 01:37:05,453
...and it squares away with the pattern...
1554
01:37:05,620 --> 01:37:10,291
...of the man from what, objectively,
we know that the Zodiac did.
1555
01:37:10,458 --> 01:37:12,493
Legally, how can you help him, though?
1556
01:37:12,660 --> 01:37:15,863
Oh, heavens. With the doctor,
the people that have called in here...
1557
01:37:16,030 --> 01:37:17,632
...that want to give him medical help...
1558
01:37:17,799 --> 01:37:21,636
...he's not going to go to trial
until that we know that this man is the--
1559
01:37:21,803 --> 01:37:24,339
Is a human being in front of a judge.
1560
01:37:24,505 --> 01:37:27,141
In other words,
he's gotta get his headaches cured.
1561
01:37:27,308 --> 01:37:30,211
This man, objectively,
without even seeing him...
1562
01:37:30,378 --> 01:37:35,016
...I think any psychiatrist would say
that this man is sick, sick, sick.
1563
01:37:35,183 --> 01:37:39,087
Why can you not make any promises
to the man through Belli?
1564
01:37:39,253 --> 01:37:42,323
Because we don't know
if Mr. Belli represents him, number one.
1565
01:37:42,490 --> 01:37:44,459
But number two,
we don't know the circumstances...
1566
01:37:44,625 --> 01:37:46,127
...that would be evaluated...
1567
01:37:46,294 --> 01:37:49,163
...and what the results
of our evaluation might be.
1568
01:37:49,330 --> 01:37:53,267
So now Jim and I gotta talk about what
we've gotten into about meeting him here.
1569
01:37:53,434 --> 01:37:55,570
I mean, whether he's there or not,
I don't know.
1570
01:37:55,737 --> 01:37:58,840
But I know that this fellow
is going to call again.
1571
01:37:59,006 --> 01:38:01,309
If we-- If he doesn't meet out there.
1572
01:38:01,476 --> 01:38:04,112
Were all calls from the same person?
Do you feel there was a crank?
1573
01:38:04,278 --> 01:38:07,915
Not only were they all that we heard
on the air from the same person...
1574
01:38:08,082 --> 01:38:10,251
...but the one time
that I talked to him privately...
1575
01:38:10,418 --> 01:38:14,856
...with no one listening in, no question
with what that was. The same voice.
1576
01:38:15,456 --> 01:38:17,658
As you know,
as soon as he's brought to our attention...
1577
01:38:17,825 --> 01:38:20,661
...we'll have no comment to make
on the case.
1578
01:38:20,828 --> 01:38:23,398
Because the man is entitled to a fair trial.
1579
01:38:23,564 --> 01:38:25,733
I will state this categorically...
1580
01:38:25,900 --> 01:38:29,003
...he will receive a fair trial
whoever he is.
1581
01:38:29,170 --> 01:38:31,139
And he will receive the consideration...
1582
01:38:31,305 --> 01:38:34,742
...that any criminal
who is brought to our attention does...
1583
01:38:34,909 --> 01:38:36,711
...in the administration of justice.
1584
01:38:38,212 --> 01:38:42,617
From all of your investigations,
what can you tell us about the Zodiac?
1585
01:38:44,051 --> 01:38:45,920
Not a great deal.
1586
01:38:46,087 --> 01:38:49,424
He's not an unintelligent man
by a long shot.
1587
01:38:49,590 --> 01:38:51,659
We are learning more all the time
but there--
1588
01:38:51,826 --> 01:38:52,994
I'll put it this way.
1589
01:38:53,161 --> 01:38:58,099
There is no one suspect
that we're focusing on at this time.
1590
01:38:58,266 --> 01:39:02,737
We've had numerous men assigned
to the investigation, as high as 12.
1591
01:39:02,904 --> 01:39:06,007
But sometimes it dropped off
to the original men...
1592
01:39:06,174 --> 01:39:09,944
...Inspectors Armstrong and Toschi,
who are handling the case.
1593
01:39:10,111 --> 01:39:13,314
They are out of town today.
They're pursuing leads in the investigation.
1594
01:39:13,481 --> 01:39:16,484
This is Dick Carlson. This week
we're in the city of San Francisco.
1595
01:39:16,651 --> 01:39:18,786
We're here to take a look
at a cunning and evil man...
1596
01:39:18,953 --> 01:39:22,623
...who for years has taunted police
and terrorized Northern California.
1597
01:39:22,790 --> 01:39:25,793
-His name is the Zodiac Killer.
-Who is the Zodiac? And where is he?
1598
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:29,197
--early '70s by a man
who called himself the Zodiac Killer.
1599
01:39:29,363 --> 01:39:32,099
He claimed 37 murders.
Police confirmed at least six.
1600
01:39:32,567 --> 01:39:34,001
Four years ago, the killing stopped.
1601
01:39:34,168 --> 01:39:36,404
Letter from Zodiac poses
more questions than it answers.
1602
01:39:36,571 --> 01:39:37,605
Questions like:
1603
01:39:37,772 --> 01:39:40,174
"Why has he only communicated twice
in the past nine years?"
1604
01:39:40,341 --> 01:39:42,076
"Has he killed in that time?"
1605
01:39:42,243 --> 01:39:45,146
For the last nine years,
the Zodiac investigation has been headed...
1606
01:39:45,313 --> 01:39:47,548
...by Homicide Inspector David Toschi.
1607
01:39:47,715 --> 01:39:48,749
I have always felt...
1608
01:39:50,318 --> 01:39:54,322
...a gut feeling that he was not dead
and that he was out there somewhere...
1609
01:39:54,489 --> 01:39:57,358
...and that he would communicate.
1610
01:39:57,525 --> 01:39:59,727
I was always hoping
that he would communicate...
1611
01:39:59,894 --> 01:40:01,729
...and not commit an act.
1612
01:40:01,896 --> 01:40:03,297
A letter I can handle.
1613
01:40:03,931 --> 01:40:07,401
Are you confident
you will get him sooner or later?
1614
01:40:07,568 --> 01:40:10,705
Well, of course, that's-- I feel that
about all the murders we're involved in.
1615
01:40:10,872 --> 01:40:13,641
I mean, that's our business
and that's our job...
1616
01:40:13,808 --> 01:40:16,644
...and that's the only way
to look at it and approach it...
1617
01:40:16,811 --> 01:40:20,081
...is that, of course,
eventually we'll get him.